Free W10 upgrade !!

[Yorkie]

I've resisted installing W10 as I've been quite happy with W7 and as far as I can see, W10 confers no special advantages over W7 and in some respects, causes complications with incompatibility of some older programs, including Microsoft's own products. I've been getting the W10 'nag screen' urging me to install it, but have routinely ignored it. However, despite my not wanting it, not needing it, and not asking for it, without a by your leave, it decided to take control over my PC and install it anyway. Tried to abort it, but it wasn't having any of it. About 45 minutes later, it was up and running.

First thing I did was to try all the programs to see if they run OK. Yes, most of them do, including some really quite dated ones, but so far, there are two casualties, namely, Microsoft AutoRoute 2007 (Europe), and Collins English Dictionary, both of which worked fine under W7. Autoroute? ‘Your Registry Settings Were Not Copied Correclty – Reinstall the program. Right,  uninstalled it, reinstalled it – same message. Try ‘Compatibility Mode – ‘did the program run satisfactorily under previous version on Windows?’ Click Yes – W7.  Answer? ‘Incompatible program’.

I know that M.S. discontinued AutoRoute in 2014 – presumably not enough money in it now so many people use smartphones, tablets, google maps etc, but I like it, and use (used) it almost daily to check times, distances and routes when planning journeys. So, here I am, with an  operating system thrust upon me, which prevents M.S’s own software from running.  Thanks a Bunch Microsoft.

Collins English Dictionary? 'This program is not responding - checking for a solution'.   Program closes. Thanks again MS. (Anyone know of a free or cheap Dictionary that works under W10 please?).

As I type, there's a knock at the door - it's the postman with my 'Andonstar USB  microscope' ordered from Bangood just 8 days ago (£29.73 post free, sent by air). Looks a nicely made thing. Just plugged it in, it lights up, popped the DVD in. Nothing doing.  Looked under 'Devices' and up comes the message: 'Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed) Diver Error'.

Ho hum - not a good start to the weekend. I think I've reached my frustration threshold, I really can’t be fussed with this caper, so for now, I think I'll switch off and go out and mow the lawn!  

Yes, I could go back to W7 – just more hassle, and I might as well bow to the inevitable, just bimble along and let M.S. have a laugh at my expense.

Mused Yorkie - AKA 'Confused of Cottingham'.

[Nick]

The Andonstar mini CD doesn't contain drivers, only the Windows application for controlling the camera, taking snapshots and recording video (look for the ".exe" files).

The USB microscope should not need new drivers - your system is obviously having problems if it can't use the generic USB camera driver (which is a Microsoft one supplied automatically with Windows 10). 

Regarding Autoroute, it's a dead product as of 2014 - Microsoft announced end-of-life for it with Windows 7 in March of that year with actual EOL on December 31st, so you can't blame them for this - no software vendor supports its products for ever. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/autoroute/home.aspx - the program started in in 1988 for goodness sake - it was a leviathan, a dinosaur - all its data was on disk making it almost impossible to keep up to date. Every modern system is web-based with the ability (certainly in Google Map's case) to download local caches if you need to, i.e. where the web might not be accessible.

Autoroute has been substantially replaced by Bing Maps, which personally I find horrible. Google Maps is pretty good and I've never had a problem with them, even on mountain roads in Oman...

The world keeps on spinning, no-one's ill because of it. Windows 10 is a good product - if your PC is having issues, it's more likely to be your PC, not W10.

BTW. I'm not a Microsoft apologist - they do plenty of pretty stupid things, but deprecating very old operating systems or software is nothing unusual for any vendor.

[AlanBeckett]

Well, I'm with David. He isn't asking that it should be supported in perpetuity, just that it should run. It's their Programme and their OS so they've stuffed it.
Thanks Microsoft.

Alan

[Yorkie]

Regarding Autoroute, it's a dead product as of 2014 - Microsoft announced end-of-life for it with Windows 7 in March of that year with actual EOL on December 31st, so you can't blame them for this - no software vendor supports its products for ever. https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/autoroute/home.aspx - the program started in in 1988 for goodness sake.

Thanks for reading my post and for your pithy and insightful observations Nick. I went to the M.S.  link and it reads thus: "AutoRoute was discontinued on 31 December 2014. The discontinuation will not affect software already installed. Current users will be able to continue to plan their journeys".
 
Not so - leastways, not under W10.
(edit: removed by mods !)
No worries, it won't keep me awake at night - I'll just use Bing or Google Maps.

As to the microscope, it's less likely to be the scope or the PC that's defective, just my lack of computer literacy.
Like AutoRoute, I'm not W10 compatible - I'll have to try searching under 'USB Microscopes for the hard of thinking'!

Incidentally, for reasons that elude me, I can no longer cut and paste text from 'Word' into a forum post, nor can I cut and paste within a post, and the large gap in the text above is because I can't move the text up the page. The cursor will blink away on the line, but the keyboard won't more it up.   No idea why - seems a coincidence that it's happened since MS planted W10 on my PC like a Trojan virus. Just another little niggle. (Doesn't happen on the UKVRF - leastways, not yet!). Maybe - like me - the Logitech wireless keyboard isn't W10 compatible?

Ho hum

[Nick]

Hmm.. I'm actually using an old Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse on Windows 10 right now.

I did update the Logitech software: Here's the Logitech Windows 10 hardware compatibility list - http://support.logitech.com/en_us/article/32427

If your hardware is not on there, it's not supported by Windows 8, 8.1 or 10 - mine is quite old and is on that list - an LX8 cordless Laser Mouse and a Wave Cordless Keyboard. A lot of much earlier stuff is also on that list - let's hope yours is too

The latest Logitech Setpoint software, 6.67.83, which supports Windows 10 can be downloaded here: http://support.logitech.com/en_us/software/setpoint

Well, I'm with David. He isn't asking that it should be supported in perpetuity, just that it should run. It's their Programme and their OS so they've stuffed it.
Thanks Microsoft.

I fully understand where you're coming from, but I can't agree - back in 2014 it was retired, prior to Windows 8, 8.1 & 10 - the note regarding continuing to use it related to using it at that time, not perpetuity - it's not a support issue - there are plenty of programs that eventually have to be retired.

[ppppenguin]

If there are older programs that you simply can't abandon then the answer is a virtual machine. Download Virtualbox https://www.virtualbox.org/ (or the free version of VMware if you prefer) and instal a copy of your preferred OS in a virtual machine. I did this for a friend recently who was still using a DOS program that wouldn't run in W10. I used XP for the VM as copies are readily available. Could have used W98 or W2K equally well in this case.

A nice trick with VMs is that they are portable. I built this XP VM on a W7 PC, copied it on to a memory stick and took it over to my friend.

[Mark Hennessy]

Incidentally, for reasons that elude me, I can no longer cut and paste text from 'Word' into a forum post, nor can I cut and paste within a post, and the large gap in the text above is because I can't move the text up the page. The cursor will blink away on the line, but the keyboard won't more it up.   No idea why - seems a coincidence that it's happened since MS planted W10 on my PC like a Trojan virus. Just another little niggle. (Doesn't happen on the UKVRF - leastways, not yet!).

Hi David,

This is probably related to the new browser that comes with Windows 10 - "Edge". Try it in Firefox or Chrome or - heaven forbid! - Internet Explorer. From previous conversations, I think you were using Internet Explorer previously - although I live in hope that you have upgraded to Firefox by now

Despite the apparent simplicity, copying and pasting is surprisingly non-trivial when you look beneath the surface.

Combined with that, the default "WYSIWYG" editor that this forum uses is not completely bug-free. I repeatedly advise people to avoid it and switch to "View source" - Ctrl+Shift+S. This turns the text entry box into a standard form, which behaves the same as pretty much any other forum. Nearly all problems related to editing posts are related to the WYSIWYG editor, and I am thinking about removing it - but I know that I would then have to spend months responding to complaints about that! So living with it is the lesser of two evils.

But as a result of bugs in the WYSIWYG editor, I spend a lot of time tidying up posts. Text that is copied from Word ends up looking terrible when you look at the code, and to be honest, I'm not sure the plethora of different fonts and colours that results is welcome, because it would have an impact on a future choice of forum theme next time we do a major update.

So in short, for anyone who wants to copy-and-paste from Word, please switch the editor to View Source mode first. See the attached picture:

   

Within the User Settings, you can change the software to default to Source Mode whenever you reply to a post: http://golbornevintageradio.co.uk/forum/...on=options

When in View Source mode, the usual "BB code" works, where you use square brackets to markup your text - the same as the majority of other forums. I'd encourage people to use this by default. Perhaps I need to put all this somewhere as a sticky...


Away from this, I found that my USB microscope took a surprisingly long time to sort itself out when first connected. It got the drivers via Windows Update, which took several minutes. I just left it connected while doing something else, and when I went back to it, it was working.



I hesitate to enter the W10 debate because I'm divided between both arguments. I did install it on a machine at work, but ended up reverting after about a week. I didn't have a major problem with it, but at the same time, I saw no compelling benefit from it. Nothing whatsoever. However, there were a large number of minor niggles - many of which hopefully have been sorted by now - but I needed to get on with actually using the machine and had no interest in delving any deeper.

In the past, each OS upgrade has brought similar minor problems, but the benefits always compensated for that. When I think back over my experiences, moving to 95 from Win 3.11 was a no-brainer, as was moving to 98 when it arrived. Obviously, Windows ME was skipped over by many, including me. In the NT world, I started with 4, and Win 2000 was a total joy after that. 2000 to XP was also a worthwhile step. Glossing over Vista, the move from XP to 7 is actually rather less clear-cut, and I'd say that in my experience it's been about 40:60 in terms of problems verses benefits. But since XP eventually went out of support, the balance has tipped more firmly in favour of 7. Again, gloss over 8 and 8.1 - if you have either of those, then W10 should be a worthwhile upgrade.

So what's in it for a happy(ish) W7 user? I really can't see it. On the one hand, I understand that the underlying code base might be newer (but that doesn't actually guarantee "better" - whenever I read up, I see lots of vague, subjective comments, but no actual real-world data). I do see, however, lots of people having problems. I'm also not won over by the user interface - it feels amateurish and unfinished. I dislike the increasing "dumbing down" - the incessant and relentless attempts to abstract the file system from the user which began with "My Documents" back in the day. I really dislike the "app store" ecosystem - it's a computer, not a mobile phone!

For those who definitely do not want to upgrade to W10, there is some advice about it on the UKVRRR forum: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showt...p?t=122792 - though I think you have to be an active member to see that forum.

Window 7 will receive security updates until 2020, and by that time, you'll probably need to buy new hardware anyway - and that'll come with whatever they're calling Windows by that time (still 10, they claim). And assuming it's not extended, the deadline for the free upgrade will end in July, so let's hope they leave in peace then (although no-doubt the nag screens will turn into offers to sell the upgrade).

I remain open-minded, but unless I have some sort of epiphany in the future, my advice is going to remain neutral: upgrade if you like, but if you're happy with W7, stick with it. It's no big deal either way...

[Nick]

If there are older programs that you simply can't abandon then the answer is a virtual machine. Download Virtualbox https://www.virtualbox.org/ (or the free version of VMware if you prefer) and instal a copy of your preferred OS in a virtual machine. I did this for a friend recently who was still using a DOS program that wouldn't run in W10. I used XP for the VM as copies are readily available. Could have used W98 or W2K equally well in this case.

Whilst doing this may get the program working, you are running the application on an old & vulnerable operating system - the fact that the host o/s may be Windows 10 or whatever is irrelevant - the VM is running a potentially vulnerable platform - you immediately lay open an opportunity for malware, especially as these deprecated/obsolete operating systems have little if any defence against modern threats.

If you can bring yourself to do it - and really you should try very hard - you should move on and abandon Windows 7/8 and all that was before them - you're just storing up trouble for the future - the problem won't go away, sticking your head in the sand will just make it harder to eventually resolve.

Concur completely with Mark re cut-n-paste - under the hood it's a complex beast, especially when pasting between dissimilar programs where formatting is involved - WYSIWYG is normally fine, except for c-n-p.

I remain open-minded, but unless I have some sort of epiphany in the future, my advice is going to remain neutral: upgrade if you like, but if you're happy with W7, stick with it. It's no big deal either way...

I have to disagree completely with that, sorry

[ppppenguin]

I'm aware that each VM is responsible for its own protection. With Vbox (and presumably VMware) you have control over the resources that you grant to each VM. As a matter of routine I wouldn't grant network access (and hence internet access) to a VM running an obsolete OS. Unless I'm mistaken I think this should keep it safe.

In my own lab I need to keep an older version of some Xilinx software in service to support some older designs which use hardware that's no longer supported in current Xilinx software. The older software won't run on anything later than XP. It has no need for network access so it can sit safely in a VM running XP.

The alternative would be a dedicated PC running XP which would be a nuisance. It would also be an older machine with greater potential for hardware failure. If I need it even further into the future I can simply copy the entire VM on to another PC where it should run without further effort.

I've seen people advocate doing all your everyday acitivites on a VM. The idea being that if you foul up a VM with a virus etc you simply revert to your last clean copy of that VM. You can also readily create new VMs for high risk activities and delete them when you're finished.

[Nick]

I've seen people advocate doing all your everyday acitivites on a VM. The idea being that if you foul up a VM with a virus etc you simply revert to your last clean copy of that VM. You can also readily create new VMs for high risk activities and delete them when you're finished.

That only works if all your data is in the VM too - If the VM is using external hardware, then its data can easily become toast. Reverting the VM may get you back to a working o/s, but not necessarily good data.

I agree that if you disable all network access to the VM, i.e. sandbox it, you should be OK... should be... are your printers networked? How are you getting data on & off the VM? Using file copy? What if that file contains malware? If data is only leaving the sandbox, again you should be OK...