A tree puzzle

[Doodlebug]

I carry out lots of weird experiments on a variety of things.
I suppose that is because I am weird. :-)

My latest one. I drove two nails into a silver birch spaced vertically
about 3 feet apart. I checked the resistance across the nails and it was about 10k.

But when I removed the continuity meter there was a voltage across the nails
of a few millivolts. This slowly went to zero after about 15 seconds.

How did the tree sap or other mechanism store this for 15 seconds?

[ppppenguin]

A pair of metal electrodes in contact with just about anything damp will show a small voltage between them. There will be electrochemical reactions at both electrodes which will often result in the voltage dropping over time.

The one test you didn't say you did was to measure the voltage between the electrodes BEFORE measuring the resistance.

[Doodlebug]

It was zero before I started. I have since googled this and apparently there can be
a constant voltage but that maybe over a long length of tree. I have only
done 3 ft so far...…...must get some climbing gear. :-)

[Kalee20]

Basically, as I see it, you made a secondary cell - and the small DC from the continuity tester charged it.

The nails initially (assuming both the same metal) would show zero volts between them. A small current one way, would give rise to electrolysis, plating something onto one nail hence giving rise to a pair of dissimilar electrodes in the presence of an electrolyte.

As it's only a few mV, and it self-discharged in under a minute, I don't think you'll have the world beating a path to your door though...

[Diabolical Artificer]

How would like if I drove two six inch nails into your head Albert for an experiment? When I worked as a gardener/tree specialist if I'd have caught anyone doing this there'd have been a reckoning. Before anyone says trees can't feel pain and are not sentient, I'd say that's not the point (& I'd disagree ), if you err on the side of caution, that they may feel something..., sorry, it just ain't done.

Be interested to see what Lawrence has to say ion this, Andy.

[Doodlebug]

I hear a million screams when I cut my grass.
I see leaves falling from trees in the Autumn, dying in agony.

[ppppenguin]

Don't even think abut pulling a carrot out of the ground. The screams can be heard for miles around.

[BusyBee]

How would like if I drove two six inch nails into your head Albert for an experiment? When I worked as a gardener/tree specialist if I'd have caught anyone doing this there'd have been a reckoning. Before anyone says trees can't feel pain and are not sentient, I'd say that's not the point (& I'd disagree ), if you err on the side of caution, that they may feel something..., sorry,  it just ain't done.

It's interesting you say this. I may be wrong but it seems to be a fact that when humans are decimated by various ills they tend to reproduce far more heavily as a response. I don't know the biology behind it but I have an apple tree which after a number of years I was not getting many apples at all. The remedy I found was to cut a ring in the bark all the way round and cover, stressing the tree no end. Ever since I have had a bumper crop. There does seem to be hidden links there somewhere.

Tracy

[Refugee]

There is more screams this time of anger when the tree goes through the saw mill and the nails blunt or ruin the expensive blades

[Diabolical Artificer]

"Don't even think abut pulling a carrot out of the ground. The screams can be heard for miles around. "
"I hear a million screams when I cut my grass.
I see leaves falling from trees in the Autumn, dying in agony. " Yep, I expected that response, first off I was careful to not overly stress that trees feel pain, but a tree is a living thing, hammering in six inch nails should be given some thought, not just done on a whim. It's respect for another living organism. Obviously we have to kill to survive, whether that's an animal or plant, but that's food or shelter, not destruction for destruction's sake.

The native American's had a similar approach to other living things, don't take too much, respect the animal you kill. Doubt most folk who eat meat could kill and butcher an animal, I know 99.9% of people would struggle to find food outdoors, the clocks ticking, your running out of energy, best find food quick or you die. Expend too much energy finding the food, you die. Move slowly, listen, use all your senses, listen to the women who hold the tribal knowledge of where to find food, where to find water to drink, where to find good wood to make shelter. Listen to the animals, blackbird just broke cover, some at's up. Squirrel's chattering, there's a predator about. What I'm whittering on about is connection, that there may be more to trees, animals etc than you or I know or understand, so praps err on the side of caution.

Being removed from gathering our own food most folk have lost that connection. There was a lot of tree lore in the past, most lost since the event of mechanisation, were too busy whizzing about with our heads down, looking at the world through a screen to notice the world all around us. Some things in the natural world are subtle, it takes time and years of observation to pick up on, a tree "moves" a lot slower than us ( I don't mean it gets up and walks, don't be silly), most of us don't stand still long enough, to be in the moment. "what is life if full of care we have no time to stand and stare" was an apt phrase when it written, more so now.

I've lived in woods and worked with trees for years and had some odd experiences, sitting in a wood at midnight in a storm or as the sun comes up gives you a different outlook, there's also quite a bit of research to partially back me up too if you want the scientific approach - https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/b...l-pain.htm & - http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-...nd-respond , there are many other articles written by proper scientists, not cranks that are at least worth a look, and some thought. This stuff is the antithesis of electronic engineering, it needs a different mindset, doesn't mean it lacks validity though.

Bit of a drastic approach there Tracy to a disappointing harvest, a bit kill or cure, I imagine the poor tree sees you coming with the saw or
knife and cr*ps itself, "bl**dy hell Doris, she's got the knife, make sure you have a good few pears this season or your for it" or "come on girls, heads up, nice big smiles, petals straight, she's got her secateurs!" from the flowers : )

Anyroad, bit of a rant there.... bit of respect please Albert next time your thinking of experimenting and think on, Andy.