J.D Powers survey etc

[Radio Fixer]

In another thread David condemned all "reviews" of cars as useless. Some are but I think "What Car" reviews are detailed, don't seem to pull many punches and agree with my own assessment of the Mazda 2, the only car I have had a test drive * in the last few years. Its interesting that the owners views, or the ones I read, seem to sing the cars praises higher than What Car and my impressions. Its natural not to want to express disappointment .... * the test drive was a joke, a lady came out with us and it lasted about 30 mins, with no motorway or even dual carriageway driving.

I'm not sure you can get test drives where a car is loaned to you for the day? Buts that's what Honda used to do and I even had one for the weekend. Really if you are spending thousands that should be expected.

The J.D. Powers survey is obviously worth taking into consideration when buying. But all surveys need looking at in detail and what did some cars get negatives for?
I haven't had time to do this yet.

Also why did some cars get glowing praise? Skoda comes out well but maybe that again is folks saying "Wasn't I smart, I didn't buy a more expensive car from the group and its just as good, even uses their parts".

To me personal experience still counts for a lot. Lets face it, it took the Japanese to improve all mid priced cars from most of the major makers. This goes all the way back to our first Datsuns that had all the extras on that the Brit makers wanted you to pay more for. And they were good to drive and very reliable. From there we have been with Honda having had 2 Accords, a Concerto and 2 Civics. None ever broke down or failed to start, all were nice to drive with good auto boxes. Some were kept only 3 years as I did big mileages but now on 4K a year we just keep going with them. An impressive thing for me is that they never, even at 10 years old, develop rattles or buzzes and so must be well screwed together.

A friend has had many Japanese cars as well had has been equally pleased. The ones made in Japan always impress me more for longevity of parts: an Accord with 100K on the clock and the same exhaust.

So for me J.D. Powers is a guide but many of the cars would be excluded on looks and specification.

But thanks for bringing it to my attention David, particularly as we are starting to look elsewhere than Honda. At the moment they don't have a model that attracts us. The new Civic is a good looking car and I know someone who is on his second and is very happy. But Honda have increased the size of the car again over the one we have now ... why do they do that? Its as wide as an Accord !

Gary

[AlanBeckett]

On the subject of 'Style', a word I hate, I think the current crop of (Saloon) Cars are universally revolting. They're fat, bulbous and gross. Perhaps there's a slim athletic Car under there somewhere but it ate too many Pies. Further, the 'Designers' so called only seem to have two tools in their box - an upward sloping line from front to back with half an elipse slapped on top. If you're at all clastrophic it's best to sit in the front.

On the subject of Surveys the problem surely is that they are in no way independent. If you took a random sample of say 10,00 new owners then tracked them for a year you'd stand some chance. But even then you'd get some Moaning Minnies who winge about every squeak.

The biggest problem as I see it with modern Cars is they're so damned complicated. Once you're out of Warranty any significan fault is likely to cost you a arm and a leg. Having said that they're infinitely better built and more reliable than 50 years ago, so I'd be inclined to go for the one with the longest Warranty.

Alan

[Skywave]

On the subject of 'Style', a word I hate, I think the current crop of (saloon) cars are universally revolting. They're fat, bulbous and gross.

The biggest problem - as I see it with modern cars - is they're so damned complicated.

Alan

Para. 1: agreed. √
Para. 2: agreed, but with a 'but'. Difficult - but not impossible - for the design team to have all the now additional bits that improve reliability & performance, yet keep things nice 'n' simple.

My main gripe with modern cars is the very difficult access to the important bits in the engine bay. Yes, I will accept that all the "additional bits that improve reliability & performance" are worthwhile, but I am not convinced that such fitments have to restrict access to the extent to which modern cars are built. If I was a total cynic, I'd say that that is a policy to discourage the classic car owner-mechanic of yesteryear and encourage him / her to take it to a main dealer for servicing. Manufacturers will make more money from the owner that way - especially if he later buys a new car, rather than have another expensive garage repair.

Of all the cars that I have owned, I still rate the Ford Cortina 1600E as one of the best. Just a pity about its insatiable appetite for rust! OTOH, the most troublesome was a Hillman Imp Californian. These days, Vauxhall 'Astras' are current favourites.

Al.

[Radio Fixer]

Well shape is very much dependent on being low drag as they all want to advertise great fuel economy and most owners, except the very low mileage ones, want that as well.

I still think its possible for a car to have some style and not look like a smaller brick on top of a larger brick. Our neighbour was attracted to an Audi A3 but said "... its an expensive car that doesn't look it where as a Kia is a cheap car that looks expensive". Good summary to me.

As to access that again is driven by the need to give the maximum cabin space. Some are amazing for this, the Honda Jazz being one. You cant have everything unless maybe you look at big vehicles.

Interesting that the J.D. Power Survey is promoted by Autocar with its reviews well featured. To me their reviews are much more manufacturer friendly as likely to be the case according to David. I read the one for the Mazda 2 and it read like a different car to the review given in What Car.

I see that the J.D.P survey is only for 3 years ... not a lot of good to me with our current way of doing things.

Yes! cars are a lot more complicated than yesteryear but me for one wouldn't want to go back. We appreciate most of the accessories.

Gary

[Refugee]

About access.
I was asked to look at a Merc A class that had been standing for a long time.
Getting access to the battery took 3 attempts.
First there was no way it would be in the engine bay.
The boot had no bit of trim to lift up.
I looked up how to top it up in the hand book and revealed that it was under the foot well.
Then I was able to charge it up and get the engine started.

[Yorkie]

In another thread David condemned all "reviews" of cars as useless. Gary

Not quite Gary!

I wrote:

"I never take any notice of reviews by motoring journalists because they lack objectivity - often the journalist are taken on 'jollies' to exotic places to see new models, and they don't bite the hand that feeds them, or they might not get asked back next time. Also some 'reviews' are nothing more than paid for videos made by the manufacturers to show the features and benefits of their vehicles to best advantage. Basically, marketing their vehicles - advertising dressed up as editorial - in marketing terms, known as 'advertorial'.

The reason I feel the JD Power survey has some value is that it's a statistically significant sample of actual owners who've had their cars from one to three years, and it covers a wide range of aspects about the cars themselves and the dealer back-up. Not perfect by any means, but not based on some motoring journalist whose had the car for an hour or two.

The very worst car I ever owned was a Ford Focus, which at the time was European car of the year. Exhaust failed after 15 months. Big argument that it was 'normal wear and tear so not covered'. I thought they'd replaced the whole exhaust but not - they cut the back box off and welded a new box and tail-pipe on. Year later, the front box had failed. Five new front headlamps due to water ingress, new air-con motor, from suspension chaffed through the brake pie, read wheel bearings failed, fuel gauge sender unit failed (fuel tank had to be removed for replace it).

When I took it to Holland on North Sea Ferries, I'd asked the dealer for headlamp converted. 'No - they don't do them for the Focus'. Huh, 'European car of the Year'? Went online, found a Ford Technical Bulletin giving the dimensions of a DIY Fablon cut-out to stick on the headlamps. Shoved it under the nose of the Dealer's Service Manager.

Wrote the Ford's MD with this litany of faults - predictably, no reply.

At the time, all the motoring journalists were praising the Focus left right and centre.

[ed731pdh]

I used to own a Mk2 Fiesta, nothing fancy as I used to buzz around London so a 4 speed box fitted to a 1 litre Kent pushrod engine was fine. However, the car was made in Germany, and was half metric, half imperial. I went off of Ford when over a two week period I needed a new clutch (at 25k), new water pump due to bearing collapse, new front shocks due to premature wear, new radiator as it was half metal / plastic and just fell apart, new front to back exhaust (which fell into a pile of parts as the holding bolts were removed) and finally, the sparks had rotted into the head causing grief when changing. All I ever did with a Ford was put my hand into my pocket on a continuous basis. I swore I'd never buy a Ford again and so far I'm true to my word.

Second brand on my s blank blank t list is Nissan, just for having the turbocharger on a T30 engine cut loose at speed, throwing bits into the engine and killing it in the process. Nissan's attitude stank even though there was an extended warranty on the turbo due to known issues and that they felt that the car was life expired at 75k. Never again.

And the best car I've had so far? Of all things, a Rover 200 SDi turbodiesel. Comfy, decent lick of speed, reliable, I regretted letting that one go for a 25 which had been cheapened by BMW and in the end turned out to be a rust bucket.

[Radio Fixer]

Oh! dear, seems like I will have to stick to the make I know for my style of motoring. It would be hard to change anyway after decades and never having been disappointed.

I haven't done an extensive search but it seems not easy to find a bare survey form and go through it, maybe filling in for your own vehicle just as an exercise. I never do surveys as I find the 'answer' never include one that matches what I want to say. The JDP may be better or worse?

All useful stuff Gary

[Retired]

Hi,

Bron and I owned nine brand new Nissan Micra's over a good number of years and the only problem I ever recall was one split washer bottle replaced under warranty. Then the Dixon's chain closed and Nissan didn't seem at all bothered about us. We tried two other Nissan dealerships but couldn't park at either due to their car parks being full of 4WD's so we visited a Toyota garage in Barnsley.

Parking at this garage was dead easy and after a quick test drive we immediately ordered our first new Aygo; we were simply given the keys to the Aygo for the test drive and drove away without any restrictions whatsoever; all that was needed was a photocopy of my driving licence. Whilst cleaning this Aygo I noticed part of the lower engine bay had been sprayed with something white indicating a leak? I took the Aygo back to the garage and was told this was pink fluid from the water pump so the water pump was replaced without fuss under warranty.

We are now on our second Aygo and so far the only problem has been a misted up headlamp again no fuss in replacement under warranty. Bron and I like these Aygo's but unfortunately they are just too small for me transporting lumps of machinery around so in August we are buying a bigger car as discussed in another thread.

The last Micra we owned was the worst of the nine; it was a 1.2 model and when I checked fuel consumption I was surprised to find it varied between 38 and 42mpg. The ride was also bad it feeling like a skateboard over the many potholes and road humps which are like mole hills around here. The Aygo though considering what a small car it is we find very comfortable; it bounces around a lot but the seats are supportive and once wound up it doesn't half shift; it's a pleasure to drive from Towton to Tadcaster down the smooth country lane at 70 mph plus whilst visiting Rufforth Auto Jumble. Aygo's are not perfect but we've liked both ours. I think Bron would notice if I traded it in for a big Toyota pickup? I checked the Aygo's fuel consumption when the car was new in mixed driving and recorded 60.5 mpg.

Since 1990 we've only ever owned brand new small cars giving us peace of mind with no unexpected big repair bills or facing the dreaded MOT and changing the car before the warranty expired; all I do with our car is keep it clean and fueled; service once a year between one and two hours carried out whilst I wait and no dirty hands for me. I used to enjoy tinkering around with old bangers but modern cars are a money pit once the warranty expires and these days a degree in auto engineering is needed just to find the spark plugs?

Kind regards, Col.

[Radio Fixer]

How does doing it your way compare with lease hire?

Not tempted to just go up a model with Toyota? Say Yaris or does that have the same high boot as the Aygo?

The residual on a Toyota may be better than a Skoda unless buying another which always helps.

Gary