Repro Dials.

[Joe]

My ivory DAC90a has quite a rough dial. When I initially got it I scanned it and tarted it up but as I don't have a colour printer things didn't progress beyond that. Today I decided to take steps as I was going out anyway.

I called in a local printers and asked if they laser-printed onto acetate. They said that they stuff they had wasn't going through very well and when I asked if this was likely to be a temporary state of affairs was told that they probably wouldn't be bothering.

After making another couple of calls I passed another printers I didn't know about. I enquired therein but they lost interest when I said it was a one-off job.

My next attempt was at Staples. They said they did it at 50p a sheet plus a three quid "File Handling Charge" for accessing the USB stick.

The printed result looked excellent; far better than it had on the computer screen.

I sandwiched this between two pieces of thin picture glass, of which I have quite a bit, which is as well given my glass-cutting skills. This assemblage was held together with strips of gaffer tape which also replaced the original rubber channels.

   

With no light behind it the new dial looked rather dark and, sadly, did so when lit, and this set has LEDs so is brighter than most DAC90as.

So, somewhat disappointing but at least I tried.

- Joe

[Yorkie]

Well done on your efforts Joe.

The ironic thing about this whole business of dials is that originally (notwithstanding the economies of scale) they mut have been relatively cheap to produce to keep the cost of the set down. Also given that they didn't have access to computers or sophisticated CAD software, nevertheless, the dials were attractive, mutli-coloured and to a high standard of finish. Some, such as the DAC90A were waterslide transfer, others were screen printed either onto glass or to metal. I dare say that in quantity, they'd be cheaper to produce today than back in the 40s and 50s, but for a small batch - say 20 DAC90As, they'd cost more than what most would be prepared to pay for a commonplace set. Some years ago, a chap called Clive Mason used to produce excellent replica dials for the Ekco A22 and my son got one for an A22 I restored for him. It cost £40 but the set was worth perhaps £600 - £700, but £40 for a DAC90A dial would cost more than the set is worth or is ever likely to be.

The worst dials I've come across for fragilty are Marconi - the lettering turns to dust and just flakes off. Some other makes are very durable.

We need a 'killer ap' - something that would produce high quality dials for next to nothing!

I wo'n't hold my breath

[Robert Darwent]

Hi Joe,

Reproducing the whites and other light shades is always the problem when making a repro glass dial. Sometimes, depending on how much of the dial is clear glass, it is possible to cut windows out of a dial printed on to photo paper and insert pieces of acetate. So you end up with bright whites, etc on the photo paper and the pointer is still visible through the acetate.

To illustrate, this is a repro dial I made a few years ago now for a Bush BP10 valve portable. The original dial was badly erased in places but I combined photo paper and inkjet clear film to make a replacement;

           

The last image is of the section of the dial printed on the inkjet film.

Regards

[Bushbaby]

Joe,
Good effort.
I agree with David that we need to derive and easy way to make repro dials as I've got a few to replace. I've a decent scanner an copy of Photoshop that I can produce good images. The problem that I have is creating transfers. I'll gladly scan and clean up images if anyone can produce the transfer bit.
If we can do this for metallic colours too so much the better.

Regards

Rob

[Radio Fixer]

To me I dont think there is "an easy way to make repro dials". All take time and often a drawing package rather than just a clean up of a scan. Also, its much better to have your own colour printer as it normally takes several goes and some tweaking, if doing transfers, films or photo paper. Of course for screen printing you are in control of the artwork but lose that control when you go to the silk screen guy.

Whites and metalics can be done but it needs a specialist product from the US where white, silver or gold dust is sprinkeled on to the wet ink jet ink and adheres. Not tried it but I did see pics of results and it looked good.

I have a PDF of a Bulletin article of my attempts and experiments on dial making if anyone wants it. Dont know if I can post a PDF on here?

Added later:

Here is a pic of a KB BM30 dial done on gold art paper with cut out windows, for the pointer, rather like your dial Robert. Originally, the dial was silk screened black and red letters and then sprayed over with a dull white. This paper needs a laser printer which when I was working I had the use of.

   

Gary

[Joe]

You can certainly post a PDF, Gary. If you have trouble e-mail it to me and I can do it for you.

- Joe

[Bushbaby]

Thanks for that Gary. I do have a colour laser and an inkjet printer. I would like to see your bulletin article which sounds most useful.

Regards

Rob

[Robert Darwent]

To me I dont think there is "an easy way to make repro dials".

I must agree Gary, when the dial is glass with a large proportion of transparent areas and the dial detail is white or other light shade, then it is extremely difficult to produce an acceptable result. Almost always, the reproduction will turn out too dark or washed-out compared to the original, as Joe found out with his DAC90A dial recently. By comparison, back-lit dials are much easier to achieve.

All take time and often a drawing package rather than just a clean up of a scan. Also, its much better to have your own colour printer as it normally takes several goes and some tweaking, if doing transfers, films or photo paper.

I must agree again, more often than not a scan of an original dial is just not good enough by itself to use to make acceptable reprductions from. Add to that, that the original dial will most likely have areas faded or missing completely. In such circumstances the only viable option is to recreate the dial with a graphics package, often in its entirety.

Then as you have highlighted, producing the artwork is only the begining of the process. Getting the colour matching right and printing the dial can take many hours of work by themselves.

Whites and metalics can be done but it needs a specialist product from the US where white, silver or gold dust is sprinkeled on to the wet ink jet ink and adheres. Not tried it but I did see pics of results and it looked good.

I have yet to attempt this method either. The only problem with it I can forsee, is that the decals produced are 'raised'. That is fine if you intend to apply them individually or in small groups to the surface of something such as a control knob, which is how I have seen the method demonstrated elsewhere.

But if the intention is to replicate a glass dial where the detail is invariably attached to the back of the glass, then these 'raised' decals are going to prevent the decal as a whole attaching correctly. As will be appreciated, a decal (waterslide transfer) or similar needs to be completely flat to be mounted to glass or acrylic.

Mirror-imaging the detail and mounting so that the raised areas are away from the back of the glass will, I believe, not produce acceptable results either. The underside of the 'raised' details will look very different to the top-side you are intended to view.

It may prove possible to place the raised graphics on the surface of the glass dial and then cover over with a plain piece of glass for protection, mounted a millimetre or so above. In effect, making a sandwich similar to a double glazed window.

Regards

[Bushbaby]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the scan - I've a BP10 dial to do and this will save a lot of time.

Regards

Rob

[Radio Fixer]

Well lets see if I can attach a PDF


  Gary_Tempest_article.pdf (Size: 179.64 KB / Downloads: 77)

With the dial for the KB BM30 the printed art paper was applied to the rear of the original dial and then held in place with a piece of clear acrylic taped in place to make a sandwich. The problem was I couldnt get the paper pressed firmly up to the original dial. When viewed at an angle it wasnt really pleasing, it touched in places but not all over and I could see it.

I would recommend the Dec Dry film to have a go with.

Gary