From cabinets to furniture - some advice needed

[Geaney]

I'm not sure of this is the right place to post this so apologies if it needs to be 'moved'.

A friend of mine who has seen the radio cabs I've done has asked if I could repair an antique chair for her. It is Chinese and about 250 years old. It has a lot of sentimental value for this lady - her husband bought it for her many years ago (he was Chinese). He died from cancer a while back so how could I say no.

So, I've got this chair - made of rosewood - which has seen various repairs in the past and unfortunately none of them to any sort of decent standard. Plenty of structural work to do to make it solid again which should be doable. However, I have no idea about finish. If anyone can point me to a source that would help me understand what type of finish would have been used on such a piece of Chinese furniture from the 18th century I would be most grateful.

Many thanks, John

[Mark R]

John,
Whilst I have no knowledge of the finish, I would guess at lacquered.

cheers Mark

[Joe]

"Lacquered" in this context would be coloured shellac: hundreds of thin layers.

- Joe

[Skywave]

Quote: "Plenty of structural work to do to make it solid again".
Then that is where to start first; the finish can come later.

On account of the age of this chair and the current high prices of anything that is Chinese and old fetches on the open market, I would be seriously consider entrusting the necessary work to someone who has the appropriate experience, knowledge, tools and skill. No disrespect to you, John, and I am unaware of what your skills etc. are for this, but if such a renovation is done without real care and knowledge, the value & attractiveness of such an item could easily be seriously reduced.

Al.

[Geaney]

Thanks Guys, the advice is much appreciated. Concerning the value of the chair, it is already in poor condition as a result of numerous previous bad repairs so I don't think I will make it any worse. In any case the owner is so attached to it that she will never sell it though of course her son might be interested in its value in due course. I doubt that will be of concern to either the current owner - or to me!

Funnily enough, I was just watching a programme on BBC about Chinese art and they talked about a vase that sold for $43m. Apparently the value to a Chinese buyer is very much linked to the original owner of the piece. I doubt the simple chair was ever the property of an Emperor!

I'll let you know how it goes - I've taken lots of photos so might do a little restoration article on it if it turns out OK.

Cheers, John

[Skywave]

Yes, fair comments you've made there John.

If that chair is in such a structurally-poor condition as you imply and with the need for cosmetic repairs as well, it will probably cost more to repair than its probable value after such repairs. And as we all know from our involvement in vintage radios, the value of something to its owner cannot be measured in simple terms of how much money it will fetch if sold.

I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavours with it.

Aside. I too watched that programme on BBC 4 and the two previous programmes that were broadcast: T.V. programming at its best!

Al.

[Geaney]

Here's a quick summary of the chair project.

Since the back came apart I spent some time trying to figure out why there was so much damage. Finally it seemed that at some point in the past the seat frame was reset but not closed properly which resulted in the two rear uprights being too far apart at the top. This put everything into tensile stress and resulted in the major damage to the joints holding the top cross piece. That then cascaded and caused damage to the lower crosspiece and the two rear centre uprights. To top it off, there are signs of fire damage to the centre uprights as well.

Previous attempts at repair were less than professional involving 'rubber' glue, pieces of fabric, woodscrews and lots of lacquer which appeared to have been splashed on very haphazardly. This poor chair has not been treated well over the years.

So, the repair strategy was to bring the main uprights back into line so there would be no stress on the upper cross piece and then see where things went from there. One of the centre uprights had a badly broken tenon so I had to repair that. It turned out that the two main uprights were not the same length - 2mm difference. This added a lot of downward pressure when it had previously been forced together and this added to the damage to the centre uprights and the lower cross piece. I also found lots of hair cracks along the grain each of the back pieces so plenty of thin superglue was wicked into them to help achieve some structural soundness.

Next I rebuilt the joint between the left upright and the top cross piece. The tenon had been ripped off so I had to make a mortice in both pieces and use a floating tenon to complete the joint. I hummed and hahed over the top right joint as this was a real mess. In the end, in order to preserve some of the history of the chair, I used a metal pin to provide the structural strength and plenty of dual part epoxy to fill the voids.

I used a belt clamp to hold things together for the main glue up and then got on with the cosmetic clean up. It still looks pretty banged up but it should stay together now and hopefully will last a while.

The finish is very delicate - flakes off easily. I'll think about that later on.

Next I need to fix the seat itself which has some bad cracks in it. These are the result of the same previous repair not mating the seat with the frame underneath thus allowing the seat to flex when it shouldn't. That will have to wait until I get back into production again.

Interesting project though - here are some photos (two separate uploads - best viewed in reverse order - sorry about that).

Cheers, John

Pictures re-ordered. - Joe
                                                                       

[Retired]

Hi,

What an interesting project John and good luck with it. Have you considered completely stripping the chair right back to it's individual parts and would this be at all possible if you could separate all the joints without causing further damage?

Has hot hide glue been used for original assembly and if so then the chair should come apart but it won't be a quick fix. Separate parts will be easier to work on and repair than trying to work on the whole chair at once although you appear to be doing a good job of it so far. With the chair in pieces the old finish will also be easier to remove unless you wish to preserve it but as you say it is flaking off and the more work you do will possibly aggravate this.

Sorry to turn a repair into a huge restoration for you John and find you a great deal extra work but the end result would last for many years to come.

I've never restored a chair but I've managed to restore some very rough radio cabinets and a basket case TV cabinet that a skip would have rejected. Sometimes trying to repair the whole takes a lot longer than completely stripping and starting from scratch.

I love work and could watch you do it all day but I wouldn't suggest using such a method unless I would attempt it myself. Monetary wise and the number of hours it will take won't make it a viable proposition at all but then we aren't in the hobby to make money and such a nice project will be deemed a labour of love.

Kind regards, Col.

[AlanBeckett]

Poor old soul, and then there's the chair
Alan

[Skywave]

No disrespect to you, John, and I am unaware of what your skills etc. are for this, but if such a renovation is done without real care and knowledge, the value & attractiveness of such an item could easily be seriously reduced.

Hmm: I now see that I've got egg on my face!
Now I am aware of your skills in such work . . . and I'm impressed: a really good job. Well done!

Al.