Making a bespoke wooden box.

[Retired]

Hi,

You are most welcome Josh and I think your approach to starting a carpentry business is a safe one building from small beginnings rather than going into a lot of debt as so many do. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get and hopefully once you start producing items they will quickly sell.

I have saved a fortune over the years with restoring scrap machines and then using them to make our home more comfortable; keep your eyes open for offcuts of both timber and metal as they come in handy; offcuts of ply or MDF make nice flat bases for such as jigs.

It cost me less than £120 to install 3 phase 415 volts into my garage by winding my own 10KVA transformer and phasing my machines to it allowing the machines to run on full power; I could run my Startrite combination machine on full power using the transformer but the Startrite is working OK on 240V for my needs.

I've never had need to use a MIG or TIG welder finding my 140A welder covers my needs but obviously for car bodywork or light welding then a MIG would be better. I was taught to use oxy/acetylene equipment but this is dangerous stuff to have kicking around a home workshop; I used to have a Portapak but considered having pressurised oxygen bottles too dangerous and I've seen a number of accidents with them.

Spindle moulders are very dangerous if used with the old fashioned Whitehill blocks but are much better with modern safety blocks the only problem I have is the cost I've got invested in my Whitehill blocks with a single rebating block costing in excess of £80 many years ago; I'm aware of the dangers and made a special home deigned jig for aligning the cutters with the block removed from the machine.

I hope you do branch out into lots of other activities Josh especially the many jobs around a house once you get into such things; I've just about rebuilt our bungalow with Bron's help doing jobs from replacing drains to replacing the entire roof; if I get the time I'll add threads covering some of my work around home as it saves such a lot of money.

I'm pleased to hear you have a pedestal drill press as they are so useful. A couple of smaller machines you might consider if you are making small items is both belt and disc sanders as they save such a lot of work; I made my own 4" belt sander from scrap and my friend David (Yorkie) very kindly made me a beautiful disc sanding attachment to fit my woodturning lathe; both these get plenty of use.

Thanks Alan but I'm too tight to buy an automatic welding mask and get by fine with my hand held mask; holding the mask takes care of safety for one of my hands so I only have to watch what my other hand is up to; I've had plenty of practice so don't suffer much from arc eye these days. Thanks for the kind comments and for prodding me into making the tool rest. The tool rest actually only took a couple of happy hours to make this morning and it cost nothing. Out of curiosity I've just checked the price of a tool rest to fit my lathe this being a 5" compared to my 3" but I could have made mine any size still costing nothing; the price of four of these rests alone would pay for a new 140A welder as I think my welder cost about £58 brand new delivered years ago. It's not just a case of saving money although this to me is very important it is a case of using my head and hands to make useful items from junk; my 4" belt sander only cost the price of the belts and has proved immensely useful since I made it.

http://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/browse.p...34/level/4

Kind regards, Col.

[AlanBeckett]

Col,
That, of course, is the objective of real 'DIY'. However, on the welding front I have to say that, despite some 20 years as an amateur, I'm still practicing. About 10 years ago we needed to weld a couple of new bits of chassis, and the bumper, on to the front of my son's ancient Landrover. We had no problem cutting the old stuff off and putting the new stuff in place. However, welding it while on the floor at an angle was a nightmare. Fortunately, next door's dad was an old Welder, so I summoned him up. He sized up the situation, lay down on the floor, put a couple of bends in a rod and welded it. It was just magnificent; so straightforward you wouldn't believe it. He gave me his Welding Textbooks from when he was an Apprentice. I'm still reading them.
Alan

[Yorkie]

Neat job Colin - you'll find the short tool rest a boon. Antoehr example of how offcuts of metal (and wood), which seemingly will never get used for anything, do find their use in time. It saves all the hassle and expense of rooting around to source bits and pieces. A 5" Record tool-rest would have set you back £15.00 plus delivery, and would have been no better than what you've made: http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.php?section=product&seq=321

At the end of my six year apprenticeship, with rumours of National Service coming to and end, I managed to get an extra years deferment to do the first year C&G Welding course - 3 nights a week night school. The tutor gained the undivided attantion of his eager pupils as a bad report would have seen us on the next plane to Germany, Cyprus or wherever, shorn of hair, and a number - not a name. My deferrement ended 23 days after conscription ended!

Welding is a skill that's come in very useful over the years, and to get welding and other metalworking facilities I've often enrolled on adult education courses, but now that the fees are so sky high, that makes no sense. For ten nights it's £150 with no age concessions, and you can buy a decent arc welder brand new for that.

I had a MIG welder for about 20 years, going back to when our second car invariably needed welding work such as new cills to get through its MOT, but those days are long gone. It wasn't a fan-cooled welder, and after maybe ten minutes use, would shut down at some inconvenient point till it cooled down. I used a pub CO2 gas cylinder for the CO rather than those silly little disposable bottles. It lasted for years. I got rid of the welder a couple of years ago as I used it so infrequently and as Alan said, they're really only any good for thin plate, when they really come into their own - a stick welder just blows holes in the plate.

If I had a choice, I'd go for oxy-acetylene, but really, due to safety considerations they don't lend themselves to home use. A stick welder would be the next bet for most welding jobs.

And yes, the photosensitive masks are a boon and very fast acting. Unless you have lots of welding practice it's difficult to strike an arc with a normal mask, and until you can, you can't see a thing, so the temptation to strike an arc before the mask comes down is rather great, and if you get 'flash' - the effect of seeing the arc at clese quarters - it's like having grit thrown into your eyes.

David

[Joe]

I've never done any welding, and never really felt the need.

What I would be interested in is silver-soldering as I often need something stronger than soft solder but can't work out what I need to buy to get a stronger bond. I'm after the stuff we just to call easy-flow in metal work at school. This seemed to be a step up from normal solder but not as extreme as brazing.

Brazing was a right pig as the hearths we had had been designed for coal-gas and the compressors couldn't supply more than one torch at once with sufficient air for the North Sea variety. We still had a coke forge when I started but towards the end all this equipment was finally renewed.

We never did welding.

The only thing I miss about school is access to machine tools but seem to get by pretty well without. As usual space is an issue as if somebody were to give me a lathe or something similar as I gift I've no idea where I could even park it never mind set it up to use.

I must admit that the idea of converting my back room downstairs into a proper workshop is one that isn't without appeal.

Cheers
- Joe

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Alan for sharing your story; it just highlights the difference between levels of skill in welding.

Thanks also David; yes the Record 5" tool rest costs around £15 as shown in the link in the previous post;a couple of my recent turning jobs would have been easier had I made the rest earlier including making the set of wooden radio knobs; at least I'm now better equipped for such turning jobs in future.

I've just had a quick look on eBay and a brand new stick welder at 130A can still be bought for £60 and such a welder would prove extremely useful; another welder I spotted with no bids on it starting at £20 is a 200A unit but requiring a simple repair or switch change. One point worth mentioning is not to buy small DIY packs of welding electrodes as these will prove very expensive; the best bet is to find a local industrial supplier of full boxes; my last box a few years ago cost £17 and will last for ages as long as it is kept dry.

For a novice the stick welder will prove the easiest to learn and with a bit of practice on scrap metal such as angle iron strong welds will soon be achieved; the first welds will look ghastly and possibly the weld laid down won't even be in the correct position and the whole area around the weld will be covered in spatter. Welding thicker metal is easiest using a stick welder because as already mentioned thin sheet steel tends to get blown full of holes until experience is gained; I've welded rusty exhausts but this takes considerable practice and patience. Hand held welding masks do take some getting used to but these were in common use when I trained on welding equipment so now I feel at home using one. I think every novice must have suffered sore eyes whilst learning stick welding; I still occasionally get caught out whilst striking an arc and end up looking at a brilliant star for a couple of hours; if you are not sure what I mean you will fully understand once trying to stick weld for the first time.

Working in the pit we used to have huge 3 phase oil cooled welders that throbbed in our hand as the weld was laid on RSJ's or very thick steel plate.

I totally agree with you David regarding safety concerns using oxy/acetylene equipment; this equipment isn't for a novice and in my opinion even the smaller sets should not be sold unless a certificate of competence could be shown. Whilst learning to weld in the National Coal Board training centre I was frightened out of my wits one day as an apprentice accidentally pulled over a full size oxygen bottle; as it fell the gauges were snapped off against the metal bench and the shriek of high pressure escaping gas was terrifying; fortunately the instructor was quickly on the scene and closed the bottle valve. The apprentice had changed the bottle but omitted to secure it to the wall with the chain. Such a fright for a sixteen year old does no good for normal bowel functions.

Whilst at the training centre which at that time was a working pit (Crigglestone) we apprentices were walking up to the canteen at dinner time and saw a short distance away a guy dancing around for his life as a hose with flames shooting out of it lashed around like a snake; the hose had become detached from the oxy/acetylene cutting torch he had been using.

We were taught how to assemble the hoses and gauges etc. blowing the hoses through and then blowing the bottle necks clear before fitting the gauges; oxy/acetylene is extremely dangerous.

Many years ago my younger brother made the 6 o'clock news on TV; he had been awoken from bed to find the entire front of the block of flats he was staying in had disappeared. Cooking in the flats was done by bottled gas and these were big bottles; one had been connected wrongly and leaked; my brother survived; he never heard the explosion.

Whether welding in a garage or on a car fire hazards are forever present and need closely guarding against; petrol tanks and carpets in a car and flammable substances in a garage or workshop must not be allowed to come into contact with any heat produced by welding including sparks that travel a good distance. This also applies to grinding operations.

You mentioned a planer throwing a knife Alan in a previous post and this reminds me of a story I read many years ago of a guy changing and setting up planer blades on a big industrial planer/thicknesser. He had completed the job apart from the last blade when the telephone rang and he answered it; after a lengthy conversation he returned to the machine and powered it up; as it came up to full speed the machine destroyed itself.

One major attribute of this forum is being allowed to fully discuss subjects that would be classed as "off topic" on other forums; this thread began with making a wooden box but is now into welding. I think this is great as so much valuable information is added to the benefit of all.

Kind regards, Col.

[ucl82]

Hi Col,
I thought it would be easier to do a 'quoted reply' so responses don't end up getting muddled up!

You are most welcome Josh and I think your approach to starting a carpentry business is a safe one building from small beginnings rather than going into a lot of debt as so many do. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get and hopefully once you start producing items they will quickly sell.

Thanks for the encouraging words! We really need small products that can be produced cheaply and easily, that way the business should grow fairly quickly which means we can get a proper workshop!

...keep your eyes open for offcuts of both timber and metal as they come in handy; offcuts of ply or MDF make nice flat bases for such as jigs.

Don't worry I never walk past a skip or the offcuts bins at school without first taking a peek....

It cost me less than £120 to install 3 phase 415 volts into my garage by winding my own 10KVA transformer and phasing my machines to it allowing the machines to run on full power

Now that does sound like an interesting project! That may have to wait for a proper workshop but would certainly save a lot of money!

I'm pleased to hear you have a pedestal drill press as they are so useful. A couple of smaller machines you might consider if you are making small items is both belt and disc sanders as they save such a lot of work; I made my own 4" belt sander from scrap and my friend David (Yorkie) very kindly made me a beautiful disc sanding attachment to fit my woodturning lathe; both these get plenty of use.

We've now got two belt sanders (although not home made as I don't possess the same amount of skills you have!) and I agree they are an essential tool, I certainly wouldn't be without mine. I'd be very interested in seeing some pictures of that disc sanding attachment. Disc sanders aren't particularly cheap nor common secondhand and it is very close to the top of my tool shopping list. This could well be the solution.

Josh.

[Retired]

Hi,

As requested Josh here are a couple of pictures of my lathe disc sanding attachment. I was delighted when my friend David (Yorkie) kindly made this attachment for me as a gift and it makes a beautiful job of sanding. I will eventually rig this disc sander and my belt sander up to the vacuum cleaner as both produce vast amounts of dust.

David made this sander to his usual high degree of perfection as can be seen in the detail. It is very easy and quick to set up in the lathe; the disc screws directly onto the mandrel nose and the table is secured by a 3/4" diameter rod that fits and locks into the tool post.

You will need an adaptor to fit your lathe although if you have a small faceplate this would be OK. the discs are attached by hook and loop and although I've done a fair bit of heavy sanding using it I'm still on the first disc.

You should find making a similar attachment to fit your lathe pretty straight forward and most of it can be made from offcuts. I hope this helps.

Kind regards, Col.

       

[ucl82]

That's brilliant! Thanks for the advice Col, and thanks for making it in the first place David

Next time I'm down at the workshop (middle of exams season at the moment) I will have a look and see how I can make it work. Truly fantastic and saves on buying a disc sander!

Josh.

[Pamphonica]

What a nice job, Col. I was just thinking of the delight of a future generation, after we are all gone, that such a lovely piece of engineering as a coil winder was restored and completed with all-new gears. No doubt little will actually be made by hand any more in that far-future plpace, but just as we now look with amazement at a medieval lock on a door, so will they, at your coil winder.
Posterity.....
Well done, yet again (and I learned a lot about welding!).
Jeremy

[AlanBeckett]

Jeremy,
One thing I, and everyone else, forgot to say about welding is you must keep your rods dry. If you do a bit of research you'll find all sorts of wierd and wonderful ideas for little ovens to do it, but I just keep mine indoors on top of a radiator, and take them out as required. Of course it's as well to be discrete. SWMBO knocking a box of rods onto her feet will not be popular
Alan