Electronics, basic stuff that it.

[Nick]

In my post I didn't mention valves at all. What I did say was that a little bit of the developments should be mentioned and possibly a little bit of familiarsation would be helpful.
We may use Digital but this is very much an analogue existence.

It was Trevor who mentioned valves, I did mention that analogue is still taught (as is materials science, essential stuff), just that analogue is no longer as important as it once was.

Generally, the analogue part of a system is nowadays mostly concerned with signal conditioning pre ADC or post DAC - that includes digital amps and SDR. The heavy lifting these days is mostly digital.

[Pat Pending]

It's the mentality I suppose. Why should I design something from the ground up when I can order a module that does what I want from a far east sweatshop for a minimal cost.  The only ball breaker being the time to get the part over and through customs.

If we are not training up electronics designers now, things are not looking too good for the UK.

I think that this is the op's real point, if the foundation of any discipline is not taught, then how can the student see how this modular approach actually works, and if they don't understand then they are poorly equipped to make any independent advance. Yes, the basics are taught, but they are very much glossed over in comparison with how things were forty years ago.
 

I know that "digital" is the glamorous side of electronics, but designers are so wrapped up in finding the digital solutions, that often an analogue one is more easily realised. A company I work for has recently sent me on a "jolly" to see a new process control system in action at another companies factory.
Their process is similar, and I took particular interest in the motor load control that they use on the hammer mills that they have, it involves:
1.   A hall effect current transformer that feeds into an analogue signal conditioning circuit
2.   A V to F  ADC.
3.   A bespoke com's i/o board.
4.   A dedicated PC.
5.   A DAC that outputs a 4-20mA signal,
6.   A  4-20mA to 10V current to voltage convertor
7.   A phase angle pulse generator phase locked to the same supply as the machine vibratory feeders
8.   A power thyristor module

The system pid settings are unavailable to the user, and any menu selected settings are only available to the suppliers technicians to alter via a password system, at £45 per hour + 50pence/mile and £35 per hour travel, no online support is offered on grounds of, guess what, yup, health and safety!

The system installed "back home" circumvents items 2 through 7 with a purely analogue realisation using one LM 324, two CA3080E's a couple of voltage reg's, five transistors and a few other bits of little cost, it works well and has done since installed in 1993.

Digital progress?

Its progress where it allows us to do things that we couldn't before, or better than before, or more economically than before.

Its not progress when a digital solution is the only thing that the designer understands, or its used in the financial taking down of the consumers trousers.

A quote that sticks in my mind is from Roland Moreno, inventor of the smart card, in an interview with Electronic Times. "Digital is easy. Analog ........ that's professional.

Cheers,
Andy.

[Murphyv310]

In my post I didn't mention valves at all. What I did say was that a little bit of the developments should be mentioned and possibly a little bit of familiarsation would be helpful.
We may use Digital but this is very much an analogue existence.

It was Trevor who mentioned valves, I did mention that analogue is still taught (as is materials science, essential stuff), just that analogue is no longer as important as it once was.

Generally, the analogue part of a system is nowadays mostly concerned with signal conditioning pre ADC or post DAC - that includes digital amps and SDR. The heavy lifting these days is mostly digital.

Indeed I did, no doubt due to faulty RAM   My point was actually to say that a grounding in analogue will not only complement digital but it can make the engineer see that it is quite possible to get the same end result in a simpler way that won't need a complex computer or back up that only the designer can repair or programme. 
There are many digital platforms that quite frankly will never get close to analogue, fact not fiction!!!

[ed731pdh]

And there in, for me lies the rub. Witness me yesterday at WHSmiths at London Victoria, thumbing through the latest issue of EE. A fridge alarm project. Fantastic, should be nice and easy, basic analogue bits and pieces. But no, they stuffed in a PIC12F675. And right at the end of the article, in small print, "Reproduced by arrnagement with Silicon Chip magazine", an Australian production no less. Another new project, a boat speed indicator, and another PIC. The rest of the magazine was digital except one possible item concerning looming cables on audio. And for this meek offerings they charge a hefty £4.65 per issue.

[Pat Pending]

And there in, for me lies the rub. Witness me yesterday at WHSmiths at London Victoria, thumbing through the latest issue of EE.  A fridge alarm project.  Fantastic, should be nice and easy, basic analogue bits and pieces. But no, they stuffed in a PIC12F675.  And right at the end of the article, in small print, "Reproduced by arrnagement with Silicon Chip magazine", an Australian production no less.  Another new project, a boat speed indicator, and another PIC.  The rest of the magazine was digital except one possible item concerning looming cables on audio.  And for this meek offerings they charge a hefty £4.65 per issue.

You could use digital technologies to link yourself to the past.....
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Radi...gazine.htm
For instance....or.....
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Book...Babani.htm
See, that's what digital is good for, getting at some of the good stuff!

Cheers,
Andy.

[Nick]

It's important to note that "digital" does not equate to "microprocessor" - there is a sliding scale of differentiation.

Personally, even though microprocessors and programming are my home territory, I value my analogue skills and spend far more time developing those than I do the digital ones...

It's worth mentioning that high-speed digital is very tricky stuff - in the realms of "analogue tricky" - when you have stuff running in the 100s of MHz or GHz region, the dividing line between analogue and digital becomes very fine indeed...

If you find AoE too heavy (metaphorically or literally!) , I very strongly recommend "The Circuit Designer's Companion" by Peter Wilson - the 4th ed. is due out in August, so I'd wait until then. This is probably the most useful and accessible book I have for practical advice - full of good stuff and worth every penny of its purchase price. My 3rd ed. copy is even more thumbed than AoE and it has the added benefit of being small enough to be carried around, as opposed to AoE which would be classed an offensive weapon if it came to a fight...

3rd ed. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Circuit-Designers-Companion-Peter-Wilson/dp/0080971385/ref=pd_sim_14_14?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Z719TD3NZ7VRZ2XH28AK

Pre-order for 4th ed. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Circuit-Designe...b_title_bk

Another one of my favorites is Bruce Carter's "Op Amps for Everyone" https://www.amazon.co.uk/Op-Amps-Everyon...b_title_bk - there are PDFs of this one around for previous eds. as its based on a Texas Instruments design guide...

...which makes an interesting point - there are loads of good FREE books from the main analogue providers - Linear Technology, Analog Devices, Texas Instruments etc. Loads of stuff, all good...