HMV 1124 - Has Been Tested And........

[Nowhere-Man]

O.K. UPDATE:

I decided I'm going to dedicate a lot of time to circuit tracing. I figure I'd like to get better at applying schematics to the set I have before me. There's a good reason for that. When I started out, I was taught to rely more on notes and digital camera pics which aids re-assembly. That's not in any way a bad idea but really I think it's far better once you can knowingly work from the schematic.

Thus, I suppose this will now go into quite a boring phase where I'll be attempting to jot down all the components against the schematic. Last night I was basically going over the potentiometer variable resistance on the grid of the double diode where there is a capacitor in circuit (think it was one of those 0.047 cases). However, there was a HT voltage divider resistor I was having a heck of a time matching to the actual schematic.

Once I feel I can visually figure out exactly what goers where, I may make a few design changes to the radio to make it more service friendly.

Also stumbled upon a capacitor I ought to have changed but escaped me.

Anyone who wishes to see pics of this radio with the designation of the components hopefully added, feel free to ask. Other than that, I won't be doing anything too exciting for the next few weeks.

[pwdrive]

NM, your on the right track, keep reading them books and schematics then apply in a practical sense to what you can see, that's how I did it, even before I took my City & Guilds course in Radio & TV Servicing, I got credits and distinctions in the C&G exams, about the only bloody thing I was good at back then on the academic side of things, I had no O or A levels when I left school, I don't even remember them being offered, just a bible and someone's got to sweep the streets...such was the Secondary Modern back then..."Farming m'boy" or "Churchills Machine tools at Broadheath m'lad" that's what they tended to push us towards.

Lawrence.

[Nowhere-Man]

Cheers, Lawrence. It's good to get positive feedback from you and you also come across as being very good at what you do.

Tracing the circuit can be quite hard at times. One thing I notice is if you see, say, a capacitor emerging from one tube pin and then joining the pin of another tube, this may not show on the schematic. If one of the pins is at ground potential, the said capacitor will only show on the schematic as one lead to chassis. If you see what I mean..

I may even need to pick your brain but it depends how good my camera is.

Anyway, I can't see it doing me any harm and it may even do the HMV some good...Fingers crossed.

[pwdrive]

Another thing to watch out for is unused valve connections on valve sockets, that spare valve socket connection would sometimes be used as a convenient solder tag by the manufactures to attach component(s) and or wire(s) to.

I was good at servicing in my day and still am if the radio or whatever is in front of me but bear in mind that sometimes internet diagnostics by way of forums can be difficult and sometimes confusing for me... fire away though.

Lawrence

[Mark Hennessy]

Depends what you mean by "novice"? I do have some background in boat engineering which also includes work on diesel engines or cylinder heads, alternators, water-pumps, inverters and so.

The word 'novice' has a very clear meaning and is always related to a particular skill set.

Being an astronaut who has walked on the moon doesn't mean that you slightest idea about what goes on, electronically,  beneath the panels on your space craft or lunar lander or that you have ever held a driving licence for a car. You could even be the most dangerous person on the road on a push bike!

You could be an expert on "diesel engines, cylinder heads, alternators (and) water-pumps" but it is completely irrelevant to the subject matter discussed here.

Yet again, I am becoming increasingly confused by your posts ...

If you're confused by my posts, it's a free world and nobody forces you to follow the thread.

It's all well and good throwing around words like "novice" but as Alan Douglas remarked in one of his latter posts, "Talk is cheap." Sure, I'm well aware there is so much to learn but this actually applies to everyone. Even Einstein stated he figured he knew just a fraction of what there is in totality in the sphere of physics.

I'm afraid I'm not likely to take these comments too seriously till you start posting your own accounts of abandoned sets you repaired and a few photos included as well.

Speaking of driving licences there is such a thing called a "back seat driver". Such people claim to know everything there is no know but never have a go at actually driving a car.

Gentleman,

With my "moderator" hat on, please can I appeal for calm.

At the risk of sounding like Nicholas Parsons: NM, I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier on. This time, I'm going to do the same for Terry.

Here's how things are looking from my point of view:

Earlier, some posts did come across as being a little bit antagonistic towards NM. However, I think that we did move on from this, and I believe that Terry's input to this thread from post #60 onwards was intended to be helpful and constructive. Not withstanding the occasional errant exclamation mark

In post #75, NM appeared to take the comment about the signal generator as a negative one. Honestly, I don't think it was meant to be. But I can see how that interpretation could come about if there was still tension in the air. In post #86, Terry did a good job of explaining the comment, along with offering quite a lot of other related advice.

Regarding the use of the word "novice", Terry is right here. I am very experienced with several areas of electronics, but I regard myself as a complete novice when it comes to valves (and many other areas besides). My 30+ years of designing with transistors and op-amps does not make me an expert on valve circuits, any more than that experience helps me to understand flower arranging! I don't see the contextualised use of the word "novice" as in any way pejorative. We all started somewhere.

This is my second intervention in this thread. I really don't want to close it, but next time I will. Please, can we keep it on-topic and civil?

[Nowhere-Man]

Mark, I do sympathise with your predicament. Unfortunately I have to admit that, for right or wrong, I seem to be the trigger for a degree of negativity on the website and perhaps it's a good thing that not a great deal will be happening now I'll be doing a bit of circuit tracing and so on. I did say say, "trigger" because I'm confident virtually all of my posts so far avoided any emotional content. Yes, I did finally start to get irritated by terms such as "novice" which I suspect weren't delivered in a clinical sense but with a patronising tone? For example, earlier in the thread you also see:

"I doubt NM has a signal generator, so alignment will be an interesting chapter when we get that far! "

Now, it isn't really a misguided observation to wonder what the "when we get that far!", plus exclamation mark means. True, I suppose I could be being a wee bit paranoid but I think the exclamation mark adds a bit of insight.

Given I'm not likely to be starting any further radio projects for a while (I figured I'd like to really specialise a bit in the HMV till it's close to the way I want it, I can maybe make a few suggestions:

(1) Why aren't a few more people posting active projects? I know some people here are actually quite active (Nick and Boater Sam often share material) but it would be good to see more of it. By the way, the best stuff I've seen to date was Miguel's stuff on another site and the Youtube channels are also good (i.e.Rick Mcwhorter).

(2) It would be nice I think for someone to post troubleshooting articles for the new members.

As I said before I'm really a bit of a lone wolf in most things including music but feel I work at my best when under pressure to improve.

P.S. I'm now working on one or two changes to my soldering as I wasn't happy with the size of some of the caps I used (a bit too bulky). Now the radio at least works, I guess I can slowly start to improve on some areas where I figure I need to.

[Crackle]

Hi NM
I hope you don't mind me making a few observations on how this thread has gone so far.
First, I think it is a great idea that you have decided to study and learn how to follow a circuit diagram (schematic). It is one of the fundamental things needed when attempting to repair any type of electronic equipment. Recognition of component types, and how to locate them and a little knowledge of the function they perform, all comes with experience.
May I please suggest you try and stick where possible to the "Trader" service sheets and not American literature.. This will help you to converse with your fellow UK enthusiasts with out confusing them so much. The Trader service sheets have a similar standard of circuit layout and you will more easily be able to see similarities between one manufacturers radio design and another's. The Trader service sheets also normally have a good general description of the circuit and the function of the various components.. The layout is clear and easy to follow with the +ve HT normally shown at the top and the ground or -ve shown at the bottom. I find this so much easier to follow than the American and some European schematics.
Learning the correct terms for things so that you can express yourself clearly is also something which should be strived for and will come from the study of the better schematics, and service sheets.

Second, well done for getting where you are today with the HMV 1124.

Third, Now please dont take offence but as one novice to another I feel I am at least qualified to make the following comments. Please don't take offence at being labelled as a novice, it is not an insult. Even though I did City & Guilds in Electrical installations parts I & II, and passed with distinctions in all papers I have had no formal training whatsoever in electronics, therefore I certainly feel I am a novice. When compared to some like Mark, Terry, Trevor and Jeffrey I consider myself a total amateur.

Since joining the Golborne Vintage Radio Forum I have been following the posts in your threads and have concluded you seem to have been struggling with coping with the layout and access to components and understanding of what is going on. (hence my opening comments)
But the overriding feeling I get has been surprise at how little credit you give to the "professional" advice and comments that well meaning people have gone out of their way to make in the belief that they were helping you. Your attitude of ignoring all help is probably the thing that most frustrates those that try to help you. These and other forum members who have spent a lifetime of learning and experience in the electronics design, repair and service industry are a valuable asset to any forum such as this. I don't like to think that they would be put off from assisting novices such as us when we really do need some help. This forum relies on the generous help volunteered by these knowledgeable members.

This hobby of ours is an interesting one and the threads detailing the experiences of others when tackling the repair of different radios is an interesting subject where we can learn a lot. But they are much easier to follow if they are kept on topic, are more condensed and with the points that others make, tried and followed up with how and if they help..

If there is any thing you don't understand in a schematic just ask and someone should help explain, this is often much better than studying books, as it is interactive learning where you can ask for further explanation, this is not possible with a book.
And last, just a thought, do you know you can reply to a post with out using the "quote" button. If you do wish to "quote" it can help if the irrelevant text is deleted, leaving just the test you wish to quote.
Good luck with the learning.
Mike
P.S. most of my attempts at radio restorations are on the Vrat forum, http://www.forum.radios-tv.co.uk/

[Joe]

I'd agree with that, Mike. Trader sheets are certainly the clearest to follow, though SOME manufacturer's ones contain extra useful information. As you say, the fact that they all follow the same format makes things clearer.

I've got City and Guilds Electrical/Electronic Craft Studies certificates but would say that describing me as a "Novice" would be to over-state my knowledge — "Amateur Twiddler" is nearer the mark. [Tempted to put an exclamation mark bit perhaps best not ]

This is a bit of an odd forum as for all that its members are united by an interest in old radios few of us seem to actually be doing much with them at present. Some people are too busy with work or family commitments to do much 'hands-on' stuff but still retain an interest.

For myself I haven't done much with old radios for a good while as there seems no point fixing-up even more to just have them stood ideal; there are only so many you can actually use. There are plenty of threads on here detailing my endeavours though.

What I have achieved is thanks to guidance from members of this and other forums. I've tried reading books but find that FOR ME they merely darken the darkness. For one thing they tend to cover general principles, rather than specific sets, and, as with my college-based learning, tell you how things work rather than how they go wrong.

The main thing is to enjoy what you do. Different people have different methods and attitudes but providing we derive pleasure from it there's no Right or Wrong.

— Joe

[Murphyv310]

Hi.
I'm shocked and find your comments very disrespectful Nowhere Man. Your arrogant attitude is not conducive to this forum. I've mentored many novices like you over a long time and I've never seen comments like yours before.
You have burned your bridges with me I'm afraid, I'm also sure that you've rattled the cages of other experienced guys here as well.
Perhaps you should change your attitude, I'm sure if you do you "might" get more help.

[pwdrive]

I think the fact that NM usually quotes previous posts by other members is his way of saying that he has read it and may well have understood what the said posts were saying.

As to disregarding advice, who to say he has.

As to questions he as asked, and answers he has supposed to have ignored.....well actually NM hasn't asked that many questions.

His method of composing technical descriptions is maybe what most of us would not be used to but hey who cares, not me, his recent brief description of an AGC circuit might be an example of that but it's clear to me at least that he is grasping the concept and making an effort.

I've never known such interest in a recent member as wot's happening here.

It's also clear to me that NM got hounded off another forum without any of those concerned even trying to understand him or his circumstances.

I hope the Mods can keep the actual subject of this thread open.

Lawrence.