'TENS' Unit for pain relief

[Yorkie]

Although I'm in my mid 70s (scary thought!), I'm quite active and so far haven't had any joint pain, but a few weeks ago, all of a sudden, I started getting a nasty pain in one knee. Saw the doc, who prescribed anti-inflammatory tablets, which haven't done much good. I'm due to see him later today and I guess he'll conclude that it's osteoarthritis due to the ravages of time. However, it  isn't something that slowly crept up on me - we walk most weeks and are in a walking club - usually 6 - 8 mile walks on the Wolds or N Yorks Moors, which hasn't been a problem. I don't experience any pain sitting down or walking short distances - only when I walk say a mile or so. I'm more inclined to think that I've damaged the cartilage in that knee, but time will tell. An elastic knee support helps a little.

To get to the point, some forum members may have heard of 'TENS' Units - 'Transcutaneous Electrical Neural Stimulation'. A little box of tricks with electrodes that are attached to the skin and send minute electrical pulses into the affected area. I think that the jury is out on whether or not they offer any lasting pain relief, with little conclusive evidence one way or the other.  I'm one of life's sceptics (don't believe in homeopathic medicine, hypnotherapy, acupuncture, spiritualism, faith healing, the existence of a creator, life beyond the grave, lucky/unlucky numbers, and a host of other things that have countless millions of ardent believers), but despite all that, I did think that a TENS Unit might at least make an interesting project to construct. (They're not actually all that expensive to buy and seem to get good reviews on Amazon etc).

There was a design in Silicon Chip Magazine in Oz some years ago (these days many of their designs feature in EPE Mag in the UK).

I've attached a copy of the article from which it will be noted that there are a few oddball components. I can source all of the ICs, transistors, diodes etc - the only problematical item being the EF25 ferrite core assembly on which to wind the little transformer. I've created a mask for the PCB from the rather manky one in the distorted scanned article, and have created a new from panel.

It's one of those projects I might never get around to, but I thought I'd mention it to see if anyone has used a TENS unit and gained any lasting benefit from it? They mostly seem to get used by back pain sufferers. Cynics say that they're nothing more than 'electronic snake oil' and serve only as a distraction, rather like if you stub your toe and it hurts, then hit your thumb with a hammer, the pain in your toe seems to subside!

Anyone any  ideas where I might find a suitable ferrite core please? I'm thinking that maybe a ferrite toroid might suffice.

[AlanBeckett]

My Wife has one which she used for Back pain. She says it worked, at least for a while.
What next?

   

Alan

[ppppenguin]

Not much point in building one when you can get them very cheaply. There's also a safety aspect so getting one that's properly tested and certified strikes me as a better bet than DIY. Unless of course you want to crank up the volts and do electrical torture on your enemies. More volts Igor!
http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/electri...in-relief/

[Yorkie]

Not much point in building one when you can get them very cheaply. There's also a safety aspect so getting one that's properly tested and certified strikes me as a better bet than DIY. Unless of course you want to crank up the volts and do electrical torture on your enemies. More volts Igor!
http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/electri...in-relief/

Thanks for reading the thread and for your comments Jeffrey.

True - I wouldn't be building one to save money - just as a home-brew project, but given the time that would take, it does hardly seem worth the effort. I wouldn't be worried about any safety risks - I would if I was tempted to use an ECT machine of the type that I referred to on the forum some time ago. It's not currently manufactured, but the firm are still in business with more updated models, and worryingly, one of the disposable items they sell for use with their machines are 'mouth gags'! Let's no go there!  

http://golbornevintageradio.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=581&highlight=ECT+Machine

There are countless TENS Units on the market - the one that I'd looked at was this one, which gets excellent reviews, as indeed they all seem to:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MagicFly%C2%AE-Handheld-Electronic-Massager-Display/dp/B00JX87MM4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1445265899&sr=8-6&keywords=tens+unit

Really, for me, they're only any use if they help the knee to heal rather than to provide temporary relief from pain because unless I'm walking some distance, I'm not experiencing much pain, though it does sometimes wake me up in the night, so it's not just when I'm putting weight on it. Old age and the slow decline of one's fitness does have its drawbacks, but it's much better than the alternative! 

[ppppenguin]

I commented on the ECT thread to which Yorkie referred. Using an ECT machine on yourself is Darwin award territory. I still would have liked one sitting causally in the lounge to bolster my Dr Frankenstein credentials.

For a milder jolt an old GPO hand cranked ringer, Type 26A or similar, like this:http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/pict/201417121087_1.jpg will give a good tingle if applied to between hand, legs or almost anywhere else

How do think I know this?

[pwdrive]

My wife, who is younger than I has suffered from osteoarthritis in her hands/fingers for a few years now, she's found that nothing will relieve the pain much, she sometimes helps me down the woods with work but only with what she's comfortable with.

For a long time I suffered a dull ache in one of my knees that seemed to come on when a low pressure weather system was approaching, for the last few years the pain has not occurred, make of that what you will.

I've had lower back pain problems since a mining accident many moons ago, it comes and goes, lifting heavy stuff brings it on, I've learned to manage it.

Lawrence.

[Terry]

Although I'm in my mid 70s (scary thought!), I'm quite active and so far haven't had any joint pain, but a few weeks ago, all of a sudden, I started getting a nasty pain in one knee. Saw the doc ... and I guess he'll conclude that it's osteoarthritis due to the ravages of time. However, it  isn't something that slowly crept up on me ... I'm more inclined to think that I've damaged the cartilage in that knee ...

My experience of osteoarthritis is indeed that it creeps up on you slowly. However, about 30 years ago I tried to get out of bed one morning and experienced the most excruciating pain when my foot hit the floor.

This was a cartilage problem and I had no prior warning that anything was wrong.

Fortunately, after this initial pain, things improved a bit and I was able to walk, albeit painfully, but it did diminsh over time.

I was commuting then and one strange thing I found out by accident when running for the train one morning was that put putting most of my weight on the damaged knee as I went down the stairs to the platform was actually less painful than doing it the other way round!

By the time I got to surgery - it was quite a long wait, as I recall - it was causing me a lot less of a problem, which I told the surgeon when he came round just before the operation, wondering if it might eventually clear up on its own. He put his hands round my knee, applying pressure with one finger on each side and I nearly hit the roof!

"I'll see you in a little while", he said, before proceeding to the next bed ...

[SurreyNick]

My wife used one for pain relief during childbirth and was able to forgo any other pain relief. She swears it worked really well for her, but only while it was attached.
Nick

[Yorkie]

Yes Nick, it does seem from all reports that these units offer relief when connected, but don't effect any improvement in the underlying condition.

In my case, this has come upon me suddenly and I can only relate it to a fairly arduous walk on the N Yorks Moors a couple of months ago. Since that time we've done other walks and it's been really quite painful. The doc gave me anti-inflammatory tables for a month but that's had no effect. Been back to see him, have had X-rays on the knee,  and he believes it's almost certainly osteoarthritis, but will wait to see the X-Rays first. 

I'd rather hoped I'd just damaged the cartilage, but from the tests he's done, he says not.  When I explained where the pain is, he homed in on the exact spot and applied pressure. He said he'll happily refer me to a specialist on condition that if he says I need an operation, that I'll go through with it, so I rather think an operation beckons.  He says that surgeons are getting exasperated at the number of time-wasting  patients they see, who - when they say 'you'll need an operation' - time and again  respond by saying 'Oh I don't want an operation'.  Ludicrous really - that's what surgeons do - carry out operations when necessary.

I'm not worried about having an operation if need be - my main concern is what limitations that might impose on physical activity into the future - kneeling, climbing ladders and steps, rambling, etc. I can do all those things now, but I'm allergic to pain! Most of the people I know who've had such operations are sedentary and didn't engage in such activities anyway so it was no hardship to them, but I'd rather act my shoe size than my age. (I know I'm an old buffer, 'cos my kids are getting old! )

Anyone on here who's had a knee replacement/resurfacing who might care to comment on the outcome?

[Radio Fixer]

David said " .... from all reports that these units offer relief when connected, but don't effect any improvement in the underlying condition."

As I was told, by a fellow walker, who used one 24/7, that is all the TENS units are intended to do and that is block pain signals to the brain. He said a lot of experimentation is needed with the setting up and positioning of the electrodes for them to be effective. To me he was a Hero and I told his wife that: he was badly stooped and had broken his spine in two places going over the handlebars of a racing bike decades ago. Now with nothing left to help him TENS was better than continual pain killers. But fully active, and now in late 60's, still hill walking, windsurfing and even back on a bike. A fellow well met and he urged me not to give up windsurfing whilst I was still able. "Age is just numbers".

Gary