Love of lathes.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Alan D; it's even neater now after more tidying; its just the way I was trained as an apprentice to be neat and tidy and it's stuck with me.

I enjoyed a trip out to Rufforth Auto Jumble this morning but when I arrived at 7:15 it was colder than I expected. I picked up more useful bargains like a brand new 1/2" machine reamer for £3; I spotted bags of new grease nipples at 50p per bag so bought three bags; a 3BA die at £2; 2 boxes of disposable gloves 100 per box £2 per box plus lots of other useful items; I'm like a child in a candy store each time I visit Rufforth.

I was home just after 10 o'clock so wandered into the garage armed with a pot of tea and biscuit; I did more tidying and moving things around until dinner time. I've just come out of the garage having now completed the Lorch head-stock restoration; at least I hope I have because I've no bits left over but I do need to fine adjust the mandrel bearings and install the guards but the bulk of the work is now done. All the head-stock components now move freely and I'm sure once under power it will run very sweetly indeed.

Time I started to concentrate on the electrics and once the motor is fully installed I can sort out the two new drive belts; until now I've just been restoring this Lorch bit by bit but now I'm looking forward to hearing it under power.

Kind regards, Col.

       

[AlanBeckett]

What's happened to your daily Report young Col?

Alan

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for asking Big Al. I've been bogged down and finding it increasingly difficult to get into the garage due to stupid things happening all the time and I've also been busy on two more forums.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/ant...on-282932/

http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/foru...?TID=14967&PID=146653𣳝

Lorch lathe restorations are quite rare especially Lorch lathes of this size so I thought I'd add the details to Practical Machinist forum in the hope of helping others who might come across one of these lathes and wish to attempt restoring it?

I finally managed to get into the garage today and have been playing around with the new Book Gryphon motor I've just bought through eBay. This motor has been stored for a couple of years and I must admit I'm surprised that due to poor paint work at the Doncaster factory? it looked rough. When I worked at Brooks all the motors had decent paint jobs but this Gryphon is abysmal having only just enough paint added to give colour but little protection; The paint scraped away very easily indeed which is hardly in keeping with a "quality" motor?

I cut three lengths of timber and made a cradle to support the motor during spray painting which can be seen in the pictures; this made spraying the motor so much easier allowing the entire motor to be sprayed; the motor has now received a decent coat of etching primer and will be allowed to dry overnight. Tomorrow I'll top coat it using the light green cellulose to make it match the lathe.

I took a decent picture of the Lorch bringing it up to date and it's nearing completion at last.

Kind regards, Col.

                   

[Retired]

Hi,

Today's update. I top coated the motor this morning not thinning the paint too much allowing me to blow on a heavy coating without runs or curtains; the first couple of passes with the spray gun looked rough but because of the thicker paint I could quickly lay on a good thickness which leveled itself out but this takes a bit of practice. I used my HVLP spray gun which does an excellent job without causing a dense fog; I always wear a respirator whilst using the spray gun; no restoration is worth destroying lungs.

After dinner I added the fan and fan cover so the motor is now ready to install; the new motor starter also arrived today so its slowly coming together.Washing the car and doing some pointing took care of the rest of the afternoon. As usual due to dashing around I need to do a bit more work to the motor; only after taking the pictures and looking at them on the monitor did I realize the fan cover edge is still painted blue? This is easy enough to sort out but why do a job once when it can be done a number of times? Such is life. The wooden cradle was well worth the effort to make.

Kind regards, Col.

       

[Radio Fixer]

Looking good ! Whats that lump in the base of the Lorch? Is that the original motor or a counterbalance?

Gary

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Gary and thanks for asking. The lump in the lathe base is in fact the lathe's counter-shaft which provides driving belts the speed changes. The motor is mounted to the rear of the lathe just under the drip tray; one 1" wide flat belt runs from the motor to the counter-shaft then a second 1" wide flat belt runs from the counter-shaft to the lathe mandrel. The motor is fitted with a double pulley of different diameters (stepped) as is it's matching pulley on the counter-shaft which also is stepped. The second belt also has the two stepped pulley's one on the counter-shaft the other on the mandrel; these two pulleys though have three steps as seen in the previous pictures; this belt also runs over an idler pulley buried out of sight in the bed end directly below the mandrel; each belt can be moved to give speed change.

It's not easy to explain in text alone Gary so I'll post pictures shortly because I'm now working on the lathe drive; once the motor is installed then I'll sort out both the belts and when I reach this point I can explain more fully and add pictures.

When I first bought the Lorch and ran it under power it was very noisy indeed but I think I've now traced the noise to both the original motor bearings and the counter-shaft bearings all four bearings being worn out and running dry; I changed the motor bearings but unfortunately although it did quieten down the motor a great deal the motor has a "rumble" which I've not been able to eliminate so rather than waste lots of time I bought a new more powerful replacement motor as seen in the pictures; this motor "drums" a bit under power whilst sitting on the bench but when I lift it clear of the bench it runs very sweetly indeed as in keeping with a lathe of this quality. The counter-shaft bearings are now also new and the counter-shaft pulleys revolve as they did when new so my fingers are crossed the lathe will run very quietly once the restoration is completed; I also serviced the idler pulley making a top class job of it.

Further in the hope of a quiet lathe I intend to do away with the original metal belt clips (fasteners); I'm fussy and I don't really want to listen as these clips keep passing over five pulleys clicking each time; I know this sound is quaint and nostalgic even reminding me of my pit days but I hope I can improve on this; I'll try my best and give a full report in due course. I'm after a lathe which is quite in operation allowing me to fully concentrate on the work I'm turning without constant distractions; I've already achieved this with my full restoration of the Graduate woodturning lathe which is a dream to own and use.

It looks like today will be occupied by sorting out my all in one printer; our paper shredder and the can opener plus other small jobs which are ganging up on me?

One job I'm looking forward to is trying to sort out how to join the counter-shaft to mandrel flat drive belt on this Lorch; this belt has to be joined on the lathe whereas the motor to counter-shaft belt could be installed ready joined; I'll do my best though to avoid using metal clips.

Kind regards, Col.

[ex 2 Base]

Hello Colin and others,as you say the finish on some of Brook motors left a bit to be desired. Brook are now part of Tico, I phoned up Doncaster a few years ago about a Brook Cromptom Parkison motor and got passed around. They said they never made that particular motor, I said I've got one on the bench, so I emailed them a photo showing the name plate.I was recently reading an Electrical book and it made reference to a Brook made DC motor, never seen one
and wasn't aware that they made DC motors.I had thought of joining "Practical Machinist" but they wanted so many details DOB etc I thought better of it in the end, I thought the CIA would have them it all anyway. I went to Rufforth last Saturday with a friend, we were late getting there and it was a last minute decision whether to go or not. Jeg doesn't get there much before 9.30 or even 10 and I note you are home by 10. Anyway we may meet up during the summer.Ted

[Retired]

Hi,

I'm not surprised you got bounced around by Brook's Ted. When I worked at Brook's fractional horse power motors were made both at the Honley and Doncaster factories. The Honley factory closed years ago and I thought Doncaster too had closed? I've not been back to Brook's since I left in Dec 2000. Brook at Huddersfield is now merely a distribution center but I believe a small team are still employed doing motor modifications. It's truly sad to see the likes of the Brook empire disappear transferring manufacturing abroad. As in many large companies Ted the office staff are divorced from the shop floor both living in different worlds and speaking different languages?

I didn't experience any problems in joining Practical Machinist forum Ted and so far I don't think I'm under FBI surveillance but then the FBI don't need to watch me because they can simply ask the neighbours what I'm up to?

What a shame Ted that you attend Rufforth so late in the morning; I've bagged all the bargains before you arrive and I've usually already done two trips back to the car with goodies before I meet up with David who arrives at 9 o'clock.

David kindly sent me details of a new auto jumble not far from Rufforth this being in Wetherby. I've had a look at the website and although entry fee is only half that of Rufforth costing only £2 there appears to be only half the stuff on sale because only bike and car parts are for sale; no tools? Because of the limitations at the Wetherby jumble I'll not bother with it and stick with Rufforth; OK so it cost's £4 to get into Rufforth and perhaps £10 for petrol but for a total of £14 it's a brilliant mornings entertainment for me and well worth the money. I hope we can meet up sometime at Rufforth Ted; when I meet up with David I usually leave Rufforth around 11 o'clock if you can arrive before 11 o'clock then we've cracked it?

http://www.wetherbyautojumble.co.uk/

I sorted a couple of silly jobs out this morning; I had bought compatible ink cartridges for my Canon all in one and the BK cartridge jammed the lot; I couldn't do a thing with the printer due to a displayed message saying "cartridge not recognized" so a short while ago I dumped this printer in the spare bedroom out of the way. This morning I set the printer up again and installed the original cartridge which allowed me to scan documents. I had installed two compatible black cartridges the small and large ones; strange though the message only related to the small cartridge so I removed this and installed a different compatible and now the printer is working OK; like most things in life it just wanted to mess me around. Next job was the newish eight page cross cut paper shredder this being a Bush; I have used this a number of times without problems but now it was dead? I replaced the fuse and it still was dead then I noticed a small arrowhead on the container? Sure enough when I turned the shredder unit 180 degrees on its container it fired up again; there must be a safety switch installed and all the times I've used this shredder I must have been lucky and replaced it the correct way around; it sits both ways on top of the container and I hadn't noticed the arrow heads previously; I did the shredding.

This afternoon I managed a couple of hours in the garage. This Gryphon motor has different feet spacing's to the original motor so I've been doing a bit of modifying; the motor is now installed but about 3/8" out of alignment; I can sort this out tomorrow by adding slots to the two steel mounting strips I made; I'd have done this today but my elbow is talking to me saying don't be stupid you've used the hacksaw enough for today? This Gryphon though looks the part and it having a 5/8" diameter shaft allowed the original stepped pulley to be installed without problem. Working in confined space I stood up and raked my lower back on the Startrite combination woodworker which I enjoyed and the pain can keep my elbow pain company; it's these little things which keep reminding me that I'm still alive? I thought the old motor supplied with the lathe to be the original but having now inspected the heavy casting on the lathe base it's obvious that other motors have also been installed given three lots of mounting holes? I've used one set of these holes saving drilling and tapping even more holes in the base.

Kind regards, Col.

[Radio Fixer]

Glad you didn't have to drill anymore holes in the base Colin. That to me is a bad step, it just make it a little less original. I try to avoid it on 'ole radios' and certainly where the screws will show, say on the back of the chassis where it has no back. The only times I have to do it is to mount metal clad resistors as replacements for massive HT feeds (EMI radios) or as a way to drop some mains volts... Boy! here it can be above the mid 240's !!

All looking bright and cheerful. I think you should bring it into the lounge at Christmas, cover it with tinsel and fairy lights . Plenty of places to hang presents off the bewildering array of knobs. Now a dual time base scope I understand ...

Gary

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Gary; yes I do my best to avoid drilling lots of holes into these old machines unless absolutely necessary. I'm sure the colour alone would brighten up any Christmas?

I've spent most of today making a wooden jig for use in belt jointing. I don't want to use metal belt fasteners so decided to go the hot hide glue belt jointing method but I needed to taper the belt ends? This belt tapering isn't as easy as it appears to be if a close fitting joint is to be achieved. I used off-cuts of timber and MDF I had kicking around to construct the jig from. The belt was carefully measured and these measurements determined the jig size.

This leather belt which was supplied with the Lorch is very old and quite stiff but certainly good enough to practice belt jointing and hopefully if successful will get the Lorch running. I used a steel tape measure to take measurements around the pulleys giving the total belt lengths; the motor was set in its lowest position and the counter-shaft set in its highest position to give the shortest belt lengths and also provide maximum adjustment range. I double checked then checked again the measurements because a mistake here would prove rather frustrating. Having now established the correct belt lengths one thing I didn't want to forget was to add the extra length on for the joint? The belts are 1" wide x 3/16" thick; I settled on a joint length of 3 1/2". At this point I made my first mistake; I had cut the shortest belt to correct length; (plus 3 1/2") the end of the belt was positioned in the jig using double sided self adhesive tape to secure it from moving around; I had added a pair of "runners" to the top of the jig because I intended to use my small router with an 1/2" dia cutter? All went well until the cut was almost completed using the router then suddenly the cutter grabbed and destroyed the joint; Oh well not the end of the world and I still had plenty of belting. Two lessons were immediately learned from this; don't use a router and don't cut the belt to length?

I removed the two runners but could still use the jig which was basically a good design. This time I installed the loose end of the roll of belt still using double sided self adhesive tape; some progress was made using a sharp 1" wood chisel but it was hit or miss so I really needed something to give better cutting control and accuracy; I thought I'd try using my Stanley shoulder plane; now things were going well and the first half joint was completed. The tape adhesive was a bit of a pain to remove each time but I managed to roll the bulk free using a finger the remainder was removed by scraping with a thumb nail I love this high technology stuff? In the end the jig worked well and both belts are now ready for gluing; I've mixed a small quantity of hide glue with water and tomorrow I'll set about gluing the joints but firstly another jig will be made to aid alignment during gluing.

It pays to pre-stretch leather belts but hanging a heavy weight on the belt end for a day didn't appeal to me so I marked the bench for each belt length then clamped the loose end of the belt roll securely to the bench and stretched the belt as tightly as I could and whilst still stretched I marked the cutting position on the belt; the shortest belt could be stretched 3/8" the longest belt 1/2" and I didn't forget to add the extra length for the joint in each case I added just 3 1/2" to each belt length. I tried cutting the belt with a craft knife but thought I might end up cutting my fingers so I gripped the belt in the big engineering vice and dropped the hacksaw through in safety; all it takes is one slip whilst using a craft knife to end up in A&E to have a few stitches added; my hacksaw gets a lot of use. I can't stress just how easy it is to make silly mistakes whilst doing something new like this; in future I'll ensure one end of the belt is tapered before cutting to length then if a mistake is made only a short length of belt is lost.

I've done lots of veneering using hot hide glue so I'm used to using this glue and always have plenty in stock; I also have the old fashioned cast iron double container type glue pot and a single electric hot ring for use in the garage; I've never attempted joining a leather belt previously using hide glue so I might be in for a bit more fun tomorrow?

Kind regards, Col.