Source for Canadian Red Cedar in UK...

[Nick]

I'm feeling a bit glum - so far all the quotes I've received for my test quote (12M x 150mm x 25mm finished in 460mm lengths) have been several 100 quid.

To be fair, all have been helpful and Wessex pointed out that some of these trees would have been well over 100 years old.

However, in Canada, WRC for that cutting list is about 50 quid - here it seems to be a minimum of 4 times that.

Regarding toxicity, I have FFP3 masks, goggles and good extraction, so hopefully am covered (literally!)

Now looking at the offcut sales on eBay etc. to see if I can sneak in there....

[camallison]

I'm feeling a bit glum - so far all the quotes I've received for my test quote (12M x 150mm x 25mm finished in 460mm lengths) have been several 100 quid.

To be fair, all have been helpful and Wessex pointed out that some of these trees would have been well over 100 years old.

However, in Canada, WRC for that cutting list is about 50 quid - here it seems to be a minimum of 4 times that.

Regarding toxicity, I have FFP3 masks, goggles and good extraction, so hopefully am covered (literally!)

Now looking at the offcut sales on eBay etc. to see if I can sneak in there....

I know you probably live a long way from Wessex Timber but, when we lived about 5 miles from them, I regularly went down there and picked up a lot of offcuts very cheap. They always used to say on their website, no callers, but I feigned ignorance!

Not sure what shipping all the way from North America costs for such timber, but that would add something to the price I am sure.

Colin

[pwdrive]

In the video I hope he nailed all the boards to the gravel board other wise he might be in for a shock when it all starts sagging.
The traditional method over here is timber arris rails into slotted posts, the cladding boards sit on a gravel board to prevent sagging, if it's just the rails that support the boards then the fence will sag if using the usual fence post spacings. If a gravel board isn't fitted then the rails have to be braced to avoid sagging, it is always better to fit a gravel board.

Yes, cedar is expensive, that stuff in the video was fencing grade but I'm guessing you want clear stuff for the bee hives.
Clear timber is more expensive weather it be softwood or hardwood, most softwood is from second or third generation stands, in order to obtain long clear finished boards then the timber has obviously to be knot free, it can be ripped down from a quarter sawn board, even then there is a limit to how many clear quarter sawn boards you can cut from a sawlog, true quarter sawn boards are expensive to produce for various reasons.
So to obtain clear slash sawn boards the growing tree has to be managed when it comes to obtaining timber from second or third generation stands, in general this is done around mid rotation (it can vary) by carrying out high pruning operations within the stand, this is labour intensive but at the final harvest at maturity it will result in being able to obtain a percentage of clear boards from the sawlogs and as such attracts a premium.
If you want clear softwood boards from a timber merchant then you might be lucky by going through the pile or display and finding the odd one but if you need more then you will generally have to "raid" several merchants to build up a decent quantity, for larger quantities you will have to pay the premium unless you can source from second hand or a gone bust sale.

Lawrence.

[Retired]

Hi,

Shipping timber in from America would indeed be very costly Colin but here's a site in Buckinghamshire (registered office in Fife) which is a great deal nearer and they cut to size;

http://www.timbercut4u.co.uk/pages/conta...bnNm_m1HyI

I doubt prices for western red cedar will vary a great deal in the UK; it's going to be expensive from any of the suppliers not aided by the high VAT charge?

Kind regards, Col.

[pwdrive]

If you think it's to expensive then watch this video and spare a thought for these guys, some excellent rare footage, especially of the guy rigging out the spar tree for the yarder, I guess men were men back in them days....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p27MX9Vy4Jk&list=PLB249BBD9FDB4ACE9&index=9

Lawrence.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for adding the video link Lawrence and it sure brings into perspective how hard these guys have to work to bring us reasonably priced timber.

The work is hard but also the working conditions need taking into account; many of these trees are felled in snow on mountain sides.

Bron and I used to enjoy watching the Axe Men TV series on a Friday night we also watch the Ice Road Trucker series when it is showing;

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1197649/

I've felled a number of trees on our property and found the actual felling not too difficult; getting rid of everything was the hard part to leave it tidy. It's amazing how much a short freshly felled log weighs; I cut the trunks into about 12" lengths and even though they were only 20" diameter each length took a lot of effort to lift and carry.

Kind regards, Col.

[pwdrive]

Yes, new timber has a price, when we had the sawmill most of my customers were no problem, but the odd few were a pain, basically they want you to give the timber away to them, I used to tell them to F off, they would then go to the local DIY store and pay twice the money for a bent piece of crap.....What can yer do.
Standing homegrown softwood timber can be bought standing for around £10 per cubic meter (over bark)
£30 - £40 per cubic meter (under bark) felled and crosscut to 12 ft sawlog length, stacked at ride side.
Add haulage from ride side to sawmill (20 ton load)
Factor in around 40% sawing wastage (on a good day)
Factor in yard rental/rates etc for storage space to dry etc.
Factor in everything else in the way of out goings.
That's just for sawn timber.
For PAR, then it will cost more.

If your lucky it will return a hard won profit.

Lawrence.

[Nick]

I understand fully the *real* costs involved in running a business (done a few of those)... Its the HUGE disparity between the UK & source pricing that slightly frustrated me.

The boards would arrive in the UK as typically 1x6 or 2x8 sawn boards - I don't need PAR as, luckily, I have the facilities for that - I was comparing like-for-like pricing...

At the prices I've been quoted, It'd be cheaper to buy cedar units off the normal beekeeping suppliers and, excuse the pun, that goes against the grain

I'm still very much open to any ideas...

Thanks

[pwdrive]

""Its the HUGE disparity between the UK & source pricing that slightly frustrated me.""

I'm not up to speed these days on timber imports but the difference between source and the customer is always large with timber, like I said you can buy the standing softwood timber for around £10 ish per cubic meter some of that will end up in the DIY chains as sawn carcasing for £200 per cubic meter and more.

Home grown should be your cheapest source of new western red cedar, failing that go down the docks and buy a full pack use what you need then advertise the rest and make some cash, during the last recession I went to the docks with some real money and got whatever packs I wanted, cheap, including a full pack of eastern white pine from the States, lovely stuff, very stable.

So the options are, go down the docks and buy a full pack take what you need and sell the surplus, keep looking for a cheap source of new stuff in the quantity you need, ditto second hand stuff, go for home grown, just cough up the money, or do without.
Don't forget if you cough up the money you are giving somebody employment.

Lawrence.