New BBC4 Series 'Genius of British Woodworkers'

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Big Al; yes it would be interesting to see how reproductions are made.

I always enjoyed watching Norm on The New Yankee Workshop series on TV.

http://www.newyankee.com/

Not many genuine pieces were made by Chippendale himself. He put his designs into print (Director) allowing craftsmen around the world to actually copy which they did in great numbers over the years and still are doing to this day.

I doubt I'll still be around in 250 years time to see how well Ikea and MFI furniture withstand the test of time?

Kind regards, Col.

[Joe]

There are a lot of episodes on YouTube. I'll have a watch later.

- Joe

[Radio Fixer]

I have the prog recorded and will watch it soon. I wouldnt want any Chippy stuff even if I could afford it, or repro which I could. Far to fussy for us ... like later cleaner lines. Not ulta modern but tending that way .

As to MFI Colin well they have gone. But there stuff in the early days was very good, we still have a kitchen that I put in 25 years ago (and SWMBO says now is due for change) is still excellent and as good as it ever was. The carcases are all sound, the solid oak doors are unwarped, the work tops without a mark.

Modern material that large companies use are very good for stablity which is a big problem with CH. Yes! it will be largely covered chipboard but it isnt the grade that you get with Conti Plas and the like. Its high density stuff and the Billy bookcases from IKEA can take a full shelf of books and wont warp. We have used there stuff extensively in our hobby rooms and its been excellent. They test everything throughly and the engineering is well thought out. This office chair that I'm in, is another example: looked at many but for comfort and support it was the best. It even has a mesh back so I dont get sticky in the summer. So IKEA is here to stay as they make good stuff that lasts: 200 years? I would think it quite possible if kept in a dry place.

Gary

[Joe]

I tend to agree, Gary. There's rubbish and good quality in all era's - the old stuff seems better because the low grade examples haven't survived. I've got a couple of third-hand MFI wall cupboards which must be from the late-60's and are fine.

The only Ikea thing I've got is a chest of drawers and I was surprised to find that the wooden knobs had brass inserts and machine-screws rather than the usual weak arrangement of a short wood-screws into end-grain. The only down-side with them is that the drawer linings are plastic which I bet will go brittle in time.

- Joe

[pwdrive]

The new stuff isn't that bad, latterly when I was doing second fix, MDF skirting was replacing timber skirting, it came ready primed, no knotting to do, doesn't warp and cuts and fixes real easy. I was down the local furniture shop the other day to order a new settee, some of the tables and chairs in there looked very well made, when it comes to joinery machine beats man everytime. Chipboard is ok, like any other material it's reliability is down to the design of the product or system and the context in which it is used, plywood is the same, try jumping up and down on a properly designed plywood I beam. Most floor joists now are the galvanised metal herring bone type with wood only on the upper face and the lower face for floor and ceiling fixing, these things are brilliant.
I have installed many kitchen units where chipboard and MDF has been used in the construction, the good quality ones never gave any trouble when installed correctly.
As with all things wood it's down to the price and availability, if everything was made of solid hardwood there woudn't be a stick left growing on the planet and we would all be gasping for air.

Lawrence.

[Yorkie]

Col,

I meant the (I suppose) Reproductions that were being made.

Alan

I was quite impressed by the Chippendale 'workshop' where they make Chippendale style chairs etc, and teach the craft skills that go with it. I think perhaps that's what you are referring to Alan. Though I marvel at the craftsmanship, I'm not a great fan of Chippendale style furniture - I much prefer 'Arts and Crafts' furniture. There's an outstanding permanent display in Cheltenham Museum and when we go down to Cornwall to visit an elderly aunt, we always stop off there.

I don't know if you spotted a young lad scooping out a chair seat of a Windsor chair. He was using a tool called a 'travisher' - a sort of convex plane held with both hands. It was most likely made by Tom Thackray who runs chair making courses at his workshop near Doncaster and exhibits and demonstrates at woodworking shows, and lectures in America and Japan at furniture schools. I attended one of his 5-day courses for my 60th birthday treat back in 1999. Most who attend have no skills of any sort, but after five days tuition with Tom, everyone takes home a chair that they’ve made under his expert guidance. (He only takes one person at a time, but if pushed will take two).

There’s a picture of his ‘travishers’ and a ‘rounding tool’ used for turning square timber to round for making chair spindles. He always has a waiting list for them.

http://www.tomthackraywindsorchairs.co.uk/Tools.htm

It was most enjoyable being trained in the techniques used 200 years ago, using mostly rudimentary tools. The spindles are made by knocking a length of 1” square ash into a jam chuck in the lathe headstock, with the other end running free, steadied by the hand (ouch!), then using rounding tools rather like a pencil sharpener run along the length of the wood to take the corners off, then using a smaller diameter rounder to reduce the diameter.

Windsor chairs were never made in Windsor – they were made by chair bodgers who coppiced woods and took them to Windsor market to sell, which is how they got their name. Originally they were commonly used as garden furniture rather than for indoor use, and were generally painted green rather than varnished. Painted chairs are rare and valuable because in the post war years, many were rubbed down and given a couple of coats of varnish, destroying forever the authenticity of the chairs. They became hugely popular in America.

The chairs use three steam-bent ‘bows’ – one for the back, one for the arms, and one underneath known as a ‘crinoline’.

As to woodcarving, there are some wonderful carved panels made by Yorkshire woodcarvers which make up a 'tableau' depicting WW2 scenes at the Royal Armouries in Leeds. (Free entry). Also of interest to woodworkers are English long-bow yew bow staves, which were the 'WMD' of their day, used at Agincort and elsewhere to devastating effect. (That's where the 'two fingered salute' originates from - to taunt and goad the French, English archers used to wave the two fingers they used to pull their bowstrings, because if caught, they had those fingers chopped off. How refined of the French - the English just used to club anyone they caught alive with a lump hammer. (allegedly!))

[Joe]

Arts and Crafts bothers me. I like the philosophy, hand tools and honesty (if I change a capacitor I'll leave it on display, not hide it in an old one) but not the style. There's a fake crudity about it somehow eg leaving the hammer-marks on metal-work just seems like affectation as they could be polished out BY HAND and look so much better.

Each to their own of course.

- Joe

[pwdrive]

I like the Arts and Crafts stuff, I would stand a better chance of completing something in that style than I would in the style of Chippendale. Genius though he was, it's not to my general taste, A lot of that stuff looks to twiddly and it's success was clearly dependant on the slave trade, being married to the descendant of both a slave and slaver I just had to say that...

Lawrence.

[AlanBeckett]

Also of interest to woodworkers are English long-bow yew bow staves, which were the 'WMD' of their day, used at Agincort and elsewhere to devastating effect.

Unfortunately the BBC and others usually ask the Props Dept. for Bows and get issued with ones more suitable for Cowboys and Indians.

'Longbow: A Social and Military History', written by Robert Hardy, is fascinating, although it concentrates more on the History than the practicalities and history of making them.

Alan

[pwdrive]

Ah, the English longbow, two distinct complementary properties in one lump of wood, David's the knowledge on these.
Chippendale was quite prolific in his designs like Pugin, what Pugin crammed into his relativly short life was just amazing.

Lawrence.