Home Made Belt Grinder/Honer.

[Retired]

Hi,

A couple of years ago I made a 4” belt sander after watching an American video. The video actually showed a belt grinder in action and this is what I wanted to make. Once the machine was running I found that I had a lot of difficulty in obtaining the correct abrasive belts for metal grinding and at the time spent ages surfing the web for a supplier but without luck.

In the end I gave up and bought suitable sized sanding belts from eBay costing £10 for ten and these were 60 grit. Since making the sander it has been a most useful machine and is a pleasure to use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYllaxuzMk0

I’ve recently been thinking about tool sharpening again and for many years I’ve tried both expensive machines and hand methods of trying to keep my assortment of tools sharp. I bought a 6” double ended grinder and restored it and this has been used to grind my tools but I hate the thing. It heats tool tips up rapidly and leaves a hollow grind which I find objectionable on my woodturning tools. I can’t fault the grinder as it is a top class Wolf and is very sweet running; I keep the stone dressed using a diamond dresser. I just can’t settle with it as a tool grinder.

Posting pictures on the forum of my home made belt sander re-kindled the belt grinder idea once again and this time I won’t give up until I have made the machine I dream of. The videos I saw showed belt grinders in action but didn’t give details as to the actual grinding belts; in America these grinders are common and a number of such machines for the home workshop are available here in the UK but are expensive and the belts are what I would consider short.

I was totally surprised to find an abrasive belt supplier on my doorstep within good walking distance; this is typical of my luck though when I initially wanted a supplier I couldn’t find one. I contacted this supplier and asked what they recommended as a suitable abrasive belt for grinding HSS (High speed steel). I received a prompt reply and have ordered 10 Silicon Carbide belts 50mm x 915mm (2”x 36”) and am now awaiting delivery. I believe the belts I bought from eBay are Silicon Oxide which are ideal for timber etc.

I now hopefully have the abrasive belts sorted out but have run into another major problem. I want the same size but in leather to use as a honing belt. I’ve spent days surfing the web and as far as the UK is concerned I find it a total waste of time. I’ve tried to obtain a ready made leather honing belt without success; I’ve surfed the web for shoe repairers; cobblers and tanneries. I’ve telephoned around and sent emails. I could have jumped up and down on the phone one day when I rang a shoe repairer in Heckmondwike to receive a reply saying “You have reached so and so and I hope it makes you very happy” then the line went dead; I tried this twice.

I couldn’t find a honing belt supplier so intended to have a go at making my own belt and couldn’t even do this because suddenly a bit of leather is no longer available. With steam coming out of my ears I tracked down a company in Frisco USA; at least it was on this planet and this company sells ready made leather honing belts or can make one to specification. I emailed my sizes and was quoted a rough price of $28 plus $15 shipping which I said was acceptable to me; since then communication has ended?

I contacted another firm selling abrasives here in the UK and this time enquired about honing compound explaining I wanted to hone HSS tools. At last something went my way and I was absolutely delighted when the company said they would be happy to send me some samples to try before buying. The samples arrived this morning and even without trying them out I’ve placed an order for two 1KG bars of compound; one each of Menzerna 523LBZ Grey and Menzerna Ulto 12 White. The sample bars would possibly last me for years but such companies deserve support and I’ll add all the details later.

My stubborn streak has fully kicked in and however long it takes me I’m now determined to make the belt grinder to my specification; I’m not surprised youngsters these days are happy to play with electronic games after all I’m a dinosaur who was taught 50 years ago to use my head and my hands to make things; in those days we had plenty of raw materials via scrap yards and there was a cobbler in every village. How times have changed.

To add to my misery the weather is dire and my keyboard is miss-keying driving me mad. This week so far we’ve suffered high wind and blizzard conditions. Today at last it reached a sweltering 5 degrees so I went into the garage this afternoon for an hour wondering if I would pass out due to heat fatigue. It wasn’t pouring down when I pulled the car out but when I put the car away it was soaking wet; I need something to moan about.

Whilst in the garage I pulled out a selection of electric motors and run them under power; I also pulled out a selection of metal offcuts and pulled out a pair of pillow block bearings with a ¾” bore. I’m out of stock of ¾” dia steel bar so will buy some as I’m too lazy to reduce some 1” bar. At the moment I don’t have a specific design for the new belt grinder but I can now give some thought to what I can make from all the offcuts I have in stock; it goes against my religion to spend money.

I’ve got a feeling making this belt grinder is going to test my patience and turn into another saga. I hope to keep posting details of work in progress and hope I‘m not boring anyone. I trust my chum Alan is reading this as it might save his friend parting with £350 to buy a factory made machine. More to follow (a lot) and I feel like taking a big hammer to this keyboard.

I could of course take the easy option and use the 4” sander already made but it would mean fitting a reversing switch as the grinding and honing belts run in the opposite direction also I want to incorporate better guides.

The picture shows what I have to work with and it looks very much like a nice belt grinder/honer to me.

Kind regards, Col.

   
Kit of parts for proposed belt grinder.

[AlanBeckett]

Col,

I fear my mate Tim is going to succumb and buy a grinder

You're a better man than I am when it comes to the garage today. I went down there for about an hour and was frozen. My Weather Station currently shows 2.6 Deg. C.
I'm thinking of bringing the MM parts up to the house and pressing on with the reassembly here.

Alan

[Retired]

Hi,

Yes Alan; it was perishing in the garage yesterday but I get so fed up with this climate that I decided to make a start and sort the frost bite out later.

Oh dear; poor Tim will have an empty wallet for Christmas but with luck Alan you will have access to a belt grinder shortly.

I was back in the garage just after 9 o’clock this morning as I’m now keen to make this belt grinder. I left the car in the garage and worked around it which isn’t my favourite pastime but I didn’t want to pull it out again to give it a soaking. It’s another black hole today but although it was cool in the garage I soon forgot about this and settled down to some serious work.

   
Tight squeeze in garage.

I already had a plan of action for today as I was awake at 4 am thinking about the job and the plan for today was to make the two alloy belt rollers. The picture shows cutting the roller blanks out using my big Startrite bandsaw. Cutting round stock on such a bandsaw if not done with care can easily result in injury or blade breakage as the blade will grab and rotate anything round possibly dragging fingers into contact. To avoid this I always clamp supports and these can be seen preventing the bar being rotated. I’m glad I didn’t have to cut this with a hacksaw. The blanks measure 2.5” Dia x 2.5” long to allow truing in the lathe.

   
Cutting blanks using Startrite bandsaw.

It was a tight squeeze at the lathe after moving a bit of kit out of the way. The first blank was chucked in the three jaw and gently tapped until it ran true bringing up the tool bit each time to test until the tool rubbed all the way around. It was faced then centre drilled; a 6.8mm drill bit was then run through followed by an 18mm drill bit. This gives inner shaft clearance once the roller is mounted on its bearings.

   
Running through with 18mm bit.

Whilst still in the chuck the end was opened out using a boring bar to give a nice friction fit for the 6202Z bearing. With the new bearing recess cleaned up to depth the blank was turned around in the chuck and again faced and opened up for the second 6202Z bearing. A great deal of care is required when the bearing housing is approaching correct size as it is so easy to take just one more cut and end up with a sloppy fitting bearing. I had tried to “crown” the roller to aid belt tracking but it was a hit and miss affair so rather than keep trying and losing metal at each attempt I thought I’d take the longer option and turn a dummy mandrel between centers.

   
Top roller ready for bearings.

The first part of the mandrel (tailstock end) was turned to a nice sliding fit then it was increased slightly in diameter by a couple of thou and this would allow the blank to be gently knocked on with a hammer and bit of wood to lock it to the mandrel. With the blank now knocked on and locked it was much easier to crown the outer circumference; the top slide was adjusted by trial and error until it removed a taper from zero in the middle of the roller to fifty thou (0.050”) at each end. All the measurements were taken with a digital vernier caliper. The bearings were squeezed into place using the big engineering vice ensuring they went in straight. That took care of the top free running roller (idler).

   
Crowning top roller mounted on dummy mandrel.

Next job was much easier and this was the second blank that was to be the driven roller (Bottom). Again the blank was set to run true and faced then the hole bored out to 18mm. whilst in the chuck this roller had its bore reamed out to ¾” to suit the drive shaft as it will be the fixed roller. I stopped at this point because I don’t have any ¾” dia bar stock and I need this in order to mount the blank to crown it ensuring concentricity.

I bought the alloy blank ages ago and think it cost £5 cash. This blank has now made two rollers and enough is left to make a pulley if required. These rollers are available but rather expensive and I think mine compare well. Compare prices below.

http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/

In spite of the gloomy weather once I got stuck in this morning I’ve enjoyed tinkering around today and have something to show for it.

   
Top roller completed; bottom roller still to crown.

I know a number of members now own engineering lathes whilst others are interested in buying a lathe. I wouldn’t be without either of my lathes. For novices to engineering lathes they will appear strange at first; it’s not just a case of sticking a lump of metal in the chuck or between centers and producing first class work immediately. The simplest turning job requires a bit of forethought and planning but experience is quickly gained with practice. The usual mistake is to remove too much material making an outside diameter too small and an inside diameter too large. My chum David has said it a number of times that putting on a cut of say ten thou (0.010”) doesn’t remove just ten thou it actually removes twenty thou (0.020”). A lathe is the daddy of all machines and a joy to own and use. Today has been good.

Kind regards, Col.

[Yorkie]

A very interesting and well illustrated thread Colin!

As usual, once you embark on another new project and 'get the bit between your teeth' there's no holding you back!

What you have in mind is very similar to the Robert Sorby 'Pro-Edge' sharpening system which uses a range of belts which start at £3.00 each at the lower end, and at the top end, a diamond belt costing £125.00! The problem with normal grindstones (as opposed to specialist purposedesigned ones) is that they run at such high speeds as compared to a belt sander, though once the correct grind has been made on woodturning tools, provided a sharpening jig is used, the tool only needs the slightest touch to put the edge back on it. Chisels for woodcarving and cabinet making of course a diffent matter and must be honed to a razor sharp keen edge, whereas woodturning tools benefit from having a burr.

You're oh so right about how easy it is to take too much off metal or wood when turning due to the material coming off 'both sides' as it were! Your 'interference fit' of the bearings in the rollers is a good example of the degree of precision often called for. I have a friend who runs a light engineering part time business from his home and has an impressive array of equipment, one of which originated at a munitions factory in WW2 when unskilled women went into factories. To help them overcome errors when turning, the measurements on the toolpost are doubled, so that 0.005" is shown as 0.01", showing the amount that will be taken off the diameter of a turned item.

I think that for novice turners such as myself, the main issue is selecting the correct tooling for the job in hand. Some materials turn much easier than others. One useful tip that Colin gave me was in making shims for packing the tool up on the toolpost to centre height. Simple - no need to buy shims - just cut strips off a baked bean tin, beer can or whatever!

[Retired]

Hi,

As I feel too perished to venture into the garage this morning I thought I’d add an update.

Thank you David for your continued support it is much appreciated. I would have a heart attack if I was faced with a bill of £125 for an abrasive belt and would certainly require oxygen whilst parting with the money. I like razor sharp tools and I’m aware that many wood turners use their turning tools directly from the grinder whilst the small burr still remains; others like to “stone” or hone the burr away. The burr is very beneficial though on a scraping tool. I’m interested to see just how sharp I can hone my skew chisel to once the new machine is completed; this is the most feared of all wood turning tools but once mastered is unsurpassed for providing a beautiful clean cut finish especially on pommels.

You certainly are not a novice when it comes to wood turning David in fact we have some of your exemplary turned items on display all turned to gallery standards. What you know about wood turning though you bring to metal turning owning and operating your first metal turning lathe it being the delightful small Lorch clock maker’s lathe. You are off to a flying start with your metal lathe because you already know what to look out for. It’s possible to turn wood in a woodturning lathe to quite high precision using nothing more than hand turning tools and a good eye. Many years ago I tuned a pair of small wooden lidded boxes and when the lid was removed it gave a very pleasant “pop” indicating a close fit.

Metal turning though unless just roughing is all about precision and with a great deal of care and much patience I can turn on my very worn and battered Myford lathe to very high precision in fact if I use my 0”-1” micrometer this measures to one tenth of a thou (0.0001”). If I wanted to work to closer precision then I would be into “lapping”.

My late father used to tell me stories of his WW2 days whilst he worked on final assembly of Lancaster Bombers. He too used to mention that unskilled women were being trained and one of the favourite things they would do would to be having a jolly good natter and lean on their hacksaws breaking many blades. It’s a good job they didn’t have mobile phones in those day.

Yesterday afternoon I spent a couple of hours in the garage making a bit more progress. It was so cold I switched on the oil filled radiator and was working in my coat which goes against all my training; loose clothes and sleeves whilst working on machinery is highly dangerous but then so is freezing to death. Everything I did whilst working on the lathe took longer as I exercised caution before touching anything; a lathe in motion will quickly grab and pull the operator in causing serious injury and I don’t like hospitals.

The headstock on the Myford is through bored at 5/8” dia and just to be awkward I wanted to face/centre/drill and tap both ends of a 12" long ¾” dia bar of bright mild steel (BMS) This will be the main drive spindle for the bottom roller.

I know my lathe has been used by vandals and not operators previously as it is badly abused; I’ve never used the fixed steady before on this lathe so now pulled the steady out and wasn’t surprised to see even this has been vandalized. The clamping area had a section broken away; it did clamp closed but would not be safe to take heavy cuts with. To add to my grief this fixed steady sported two small clamping levers one each to two of the guide rods but the third (top) was secured with a socket screw. Another thing I don't like about this fixed steady is that the guide rods don't have micro adjustment by screw; such adjustment is very useful but it's better than nothing. I sincerely wish the engineers who taught me could have been standing behind the uncaring vandals who had caused so much damage to this lathe; their lifespan would have been considerably reduced.

I set everything up then faced the bar end and followed with the centre drill. A deep hole was bored at tapping size and this was then tapped at 8mm to accept a set screw upon final assembly. The hole was bored extra deep as I didn't want the tap to bottom out or it would possibly fracture as tapping like this in a lathe is much more brutal than hand tapping. I don’t own a sensitive tapping attachment for the lathe so instead chucked the tap in the tailstock Jacobs chuck and leaving the tailstock to slide freely this being a well tried and tested method giving perfect results. I ran the tap in to full depth. The bar was then treated exactly the same at its other end. I don’t own a left hand tap but doubt I’ll suffer any problems as I hope with all the care I’m putting in the new belt grinder will be sweet running with little vibration. If the set screw does loosen then I can always “Loctite” a threaded stud and add a “Nylock” nut.

       
Drilling and tapping to 8mm.

Next job I wanted to crown the alloy drive roller and had intended to secure the roller to the new ¾” dia spindle but given the condition of the fixed steady I resorted to using the dummy mandrel method as explained previously when I crowned the idler roller. This was enough for one day and I was fed up of bumping into things as the car remained in the garage due to snow being forecast.

The two 1.2kg bars of honing compound and the 4” dia x 1” wide sisal mop arrived from The Polishing Shop. What top class service I’ve received from this company; firstly they generously sent me three large samples of compound then when I placed the order the service was brilliant. The picture shows the order together with the three samples.

   
Honing compound; sisal mop and free samples.

The ten new grinding belts are expected very soon and these have been made especially to my size; the money has left our account so this indicates imminent arrival.

Even more good news; I’ve now sorted out the leather honing belt supplier problem. I phoned Econ Abrasives in Frisco USA on Monday and gave them my debit card details. The new leather honing belt is now being made to my size and will be shipped to me shortly. It beats me why the UK is now unable to supply even such a basic item as a leather honing belt and I’ve ended up buying from the states. Econ are excellent people to deal with.

In spite of the weather this project is moving along slowly and I now need to do some serious bench work. I don’t have a dimensioned sketch to work from but intend to make it up as I go along to suit what offcuts of steel I have to hand so it should prove interesting as well as a challenge.

Kind regards, Col.

[Yorkie]

Thanks for posting the interesting update Colin - things are beginning to take shape!

You sound as though you've dropped lucky with the two firms you've dealt with for the leather honing belt and buffing compond.

The steady does look a bit sorry for itself, but at least it does the job. I can't fathom out why lathes get so abused by supposedly 'skilled' people. I've often seen teeth missing from gears where it's obvious that someone has jammed a bar between the teeth to stop the headstock from moving, then used a hammer to remove a chuck, with predicatavble results. You can bet your life that anyone who'd do that didn't own the lathe personally.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks David; yes the two suppliers did extremely well for me and I can now confirm that the third supplier has come up with the goods; the new grinding belts arrived whilst I was working in the garage this afternoon; I wondered who was pounding on the garage door. The ten belts cost £21.90 net. This is fair and I'm happy to pay the amount for ten custom belts and also don't object to paying the shipping charge of £5.50. I do however detest being ripped of to the tune of £5.48 for VAT. This hardly encourages anyone to buy anything.

As it was dry outside I pulled the car out so at least I could move around without bumping into things. I spent an hour on the lathe and made a spindle for the top idler roller. It was hard going because the tool insert bit began to chatter and I found it difficult trying to grind it due to the gloom. I used the digital vernier calliper to measure the bore of the bearing and obtained a reading of 0.589". I turned the spindle to 0.592" to give a friction fit to the bearing.

It was too cold for comfort so I knocked off and brought the new spindle and one bearing into the kitchen. Bron was using the oven so I popped the bearing in to heat it up but when I then tried to drop it onto the spindle it just wouldn't go. I don't want to use excessive force so tomorrow I'll play around with it a bit more. It's difficult doing good work in doom and gloom whilst feeling frozen but I'll not give up. Not the best of sessions today but I've almost got a spindle tapped at both ends for my efforts. Things don't always go right for me first time.

I've just checked the bearing specification on the web and the bore is 15mm or 0.59055". I'm sure the bearings should fit the new spindle and this is usually where a novice on a lathe re-chucks the spindle and ends up with scrap. Whilst measuring the bore I did allow an extra thou to take into account the thickness of the calliper jaws. Patience is a wonderful thing.

Kind regards, Col.

[Yorkie]

Hi,

Thanks David; yes the two suppliers did extremely well for me and I can now confirm that the third supplier has come up with the goods; the new grinding belts arrived whilst I was working in the garage this afternoon; I wondered who was pounding on the garage door. The ten belts cost £21.90 net. This is fair and I'm happy to pay the amount for ten custom belts and also don't object to paying the shipping charge of £5.50. I do however detest being ripped of to the tune of £5.48 for VAT. This hardly encourages anyone to buy anything.
Kind regards, Col.

Re the VAT Colin, you'll just have to hope that your leather belt from the States comes in 'under the radar' of HMRC, because if not, not only will you have the VAT to pay, but also the Post Office fee (about £8.00 I think) for collecting the duty.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

How you suffer for your art:D

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for the information regarding customs and the possible post office charge David; I'll have nightmares tonight.

I thought Guy Fawkes made a mess of it!!

Whatever happens my belt grinder is slowly taking shape and I shudder to hear of people paying £350 for a factory made one. Even a factory made belt grinder will require the belts.

So far my expense is mostly limited to consumables and the actual machine has only cost the bit of round BMS. I had the bearings in stock and these were obtained when I worked at Brooks. One day I was walking past the scrap area; well I would wouldn't I? I noticed a very large steel bin and this bin must have contained around half a ton of brand new bearings all going to scrap because they had failed the noise test. I had permission from "upstairs" to raid skips and the scrap so brought a box full of bearings home and still have a few in stock. I also had full access to shaft ends and made good use of this as many a night the car came home plane spotting. I used to obtain all sorts of useful items and was even allowed to bring home experimental motors that had been used under test but on the understanding I never sold them.

The offcuts of scrap I obtain from a local sheet metal company from their scrap bin and when I first asked if they had offcuts I loaded the car and asked how much I owed; I was told £3 so handed over a £10 note as the offcuts were worth every penny to me and I can always go back without feeling as though I'm on the scrounge. I just take what is available and store it under the benches and under the bungalow; I have full access under the bungalow; it is too low to stand upright but is like an Aladdin's cave with all my treasures.

Friends give me electric motors and I have a number in stock so a machine such as this belt grinder actually costs me very little; the grinding belts; leather honing belt and abrasive compound will last a long time. Hopefully my machine once made will be as good as the £350 machine; possibly not as pretty but it will be assembled with easily replaceable parts and be built like a tank to last many years. The 4" belt sander I made has already earned its keep. I'm looking forward to having a go at sharpening all my tools using the new grinder; it's a pity the weather is slowing me down as I'm enjoying making it.

Kind regards, Col.

[Yorkie]

I had the bearings in stock and these were obtained when I worked at Brooks. One day I was walking past the scrap area; well I would wouldn't I? I noticed a very large steel bin and this bin must have contained around half a ton of brand new bearings all going to scrap because they had failed the noise test. I had permission from "upstairs" to raid skips and the scrap so brought a box full of bearings home and still have a few in stock.

Errm, a few less in stock than there might have been because due to Colin's generosity when we met up at the Golborne Swapmeet, some are are now installed in my bandsaw to replace the original ones that had recently all but seized up!