The cost of running an electric car

[Cobaltblue]

Bit of a controversial subject but I thought my experience over the last of year or so, may inform others.

How much does it really cost to run an electric car?

I have been running a PHEV since 2018 but went fully Electric in June 2023.

When working out running costs for EV's it tends to be easiest to work out Pence per mile rather than MPG.

So lets start with a reasonable comparison a similar size vehicle I owned between 2014 and 2018 my Honda CRV 1.6 Diesel ( a really great vehicle).

It averaged about 60MPG even with me driving.

Current Diesel price assume £1.336 /L or more or less £6 per gallon.

At that rate forgetting all other costs 10P per mile.

EVs its all down to Pence/KW

My car does around 4 Miles/KW and if I charge at home off peak using Smart charging is 7p per KWH (Octopus)

That gives me less than 2p per mile.

If I go on a long trip and have to use public charging then I can expect anywhere up to 75p/KWH

Tesla superchargers are much cheaper at typically  40p/KWH or 10P/Mile

If you take the overall over a period of time  most journeys I don't need the public network so overall its around 3.5p per mile in the last 12 moths including a trips to Glasgow, March(Cambridgeshire), Southampton  and 2 trips to St Helens 

I have  a home charger Tesla Wall Charger 7.6 KW 

The Octopus scheme try's to achieve you're  set limit  so I get a minimum of 5 hours but often as many as 7 hours at 7.6 KW/H.

Along with Service periods being typically 50'000 miles+ once you get over the purchase price EV's can be very cheap to run.

Tonight my car will only charge for less than 1 hour  as that's all that's needed top it up.

Cheers

Mike T

[Mike Watterson]

Possibly the service & maintenance costs are higher for non-EV, except there is battery replacement on non-EV.
Tax is likely to be raised on EV in the future to replace lost non-EV vehicle revenue as people changeover.

Differences in capital cost. The EV is still more expensive, on average.

I've 12x bifacial 430W[!] PV solar panels and about 8600 Wh of batteries. There are direct EV charge adaptors for some systems. It's partially off-grid (there is grid charging option and last two weeks of December is about 1/10th of June/July) in the sense than some things are only on Solar power and no Solar power is sold / fed to grid. So even without special rates [2] the running cost per km could be low.

But I can't afford a replacement S/H EV, hybrid or IC car. I'll probably stop driving and use free buses and not-free taxis eventually. Being rural a Hybrid sound more attractive. However our mileage is very low, as the approx 20km round trip for weekly supermarket is most of it. Though the bus is free, it's not great for a weekly shop, so the high cost of the village mini-mart would be much less than a taxi.

I think even if I could afford a replacement vehicle, eventually you have to give up driving, unless you are rich enough for a chauffeur.


[!] PV Solar panel ratings allow you to compare panels. The rated power is for 1000 w per sq metre illumination, which in Midwest of Ireland rare in December / January compared to June/July. Also the hours of useful daylight are much less than hours of daylight in midwinter (due to lower sun elevation and fixed panels). The actual daylight is about 9.5 hours less in midwinter than midsummer (Limerick) [3]. The difference is greater in Scotland.


[2] There are special night-time rates here (11 pm -8 am), and super cheap rate for 2 am - 4 am, but you have to used Direct Debit (I pay cash), get a smart meter installed (those are optional here) and pay a much higher standing charge.

[3] Security of supply vs savings.
If you are older the security of supply may be more important than cost savings, which might take 5 to 10 years to recover. At least the PV panels now are good for over 30 years and the LiFePO4 batteries while about x3 cost of the cheapest lead Acid, may do over 3000 complete cycles and won't be damged by deep cycle. As each day may only be a partial cycle the LiFePO4 life might be 10 to 15 years. Only more expensive deep cycle lead acid are suitable. A €60 car battery might not last 2 years.
Decide how much stuff needs to run with no grid at all in December and estimate how many hours without PV charging. That sets your battery Wh. Then multiply the daylight charging hours by about x10 for Panel power. Even a north facing roof will do nearly as well as an ideal south roof in grey overcast sky. Panels can be as low as €120 per 430W.
Then an MPPT controller with built in mains charger and inverter. Bluetti and Victron are good. Separate MPPT (PV to charge battery) and inverter is cheapest but not flexible. About 3 kW MPPT/Inverter/Mains charger, 6000 Wh battery and about 3500 W PV (at 1000 w per sq metre illumination) seems like a minimum and if there is no Grid at all for days at the end of December, you scale back to essentials of about 300 W average (possible to run huge freezer, fridge, fibre modem, Wifi, laptop, PC, satellite and TV and some LED lights on that!). The separate Freezer & Fridge might take over 600W peak start, and 150W running but an average of only 40W, so for 14 hours, 560 Wh. A cheap 2500 Wh 25V LiFePO4 is about £450. It can be used with a 1.2 kW (2.4 kW peak) inverter. The full 1200W is nearly 50A, so don't even think about a smaller battery or 12V.


My friend Cassandra says security of supply is more important than savings. No-one ever believes her gloomy predictions but she's always right.

[Kalee20]

Interesting figures, thanks Cobaltblue!

Given that EV's cost more to buy right now, at how many miles do you reckon the break-even point will be?

Tax is likely to be raised on EV in the future to replace lost non-EV vehicle revenue as people changeover.

Quite likely... not only Vehicle Excise Duty, but also fuel duty.

Right now home heating oil is a lot cheaper than petrol or DERV at the pump... because of the road duty. But it's illegal to use home heating oil in my Diesel car.

Yet I could charge an electric car and pay the same tariff as I'd pay to run an electric fire. Some point this may change?

My friend Cassandra says security of supply is more important than savings. No-one ever believes her gloomy predictions but she's always right.

I'd say that the electric vehicle will have better security of supply... it's extremely rare that electricity is off for more than 12 hours, but petrol/diesel supply scares are more common. Moreover, having a generator, it's possible to charge an EV given a few gallons of fuel, but it's not possible to fill up a tankful with access to the National Grid.

[Mike Watterson]

Interesting figures, thanks Cobaltblue!

…

I'd say that the electric vehicle will have better security of supply... it's extremely rare that electricity is off for more than 12 hours, but petrol/diesel supply scares are more common. Moreover, having a generator, it's possible to charge an EV given a few gallons of fuel, but it's not possible to fill up a tankful with access to the National Grid.

Well, if you've solar generated electricity …

Apparently there are EV conversion kits for some vehicles.

Eventually S/H EVs will be cheaper and the LiFePO4, while not the highest capacity Lithium is long life, cheaper, less likely to go on fire and less toxic than other Li techs. Newer EVs use it. The patent has also expired.

It does add weight. A smaller EV might have 40 kWh of battery and a larger or longer range EV maybe 60 kWh. Based on a standalone 2560 Wh battery that's about 300 kg to about 450 kg. However the electric motor(s) based system weigh less than conventional engine and gearbox etc. Of course a full tank of fuel might be 120 kg, but it gets used up.

But for longer range vehicles synthetic LPG made in a sunny climate from water, waste carbon and solar power may make more sense. Oddly it's less wasteful to transport bulk LPG long distances than electricity, unless a superconducting grid becomes possible.

Solar is the only viable way today to utilise fusion power or cleanly run an EV in many countries. A steel roof (corrugated or other) is the simplest roof to mount and you can set them on the ground if you have the space.

Bifacial panels can be vertical as a fence or on top of a wall, or be car-port or conservatory roof in themselves. They are a 1/4 of the price they used to be and PV panel life is allegedly x6 to x12 what it used to be.

[reset]

Bit of a controversial subject but I thought my experience over the last of year or so, may inform others.

How much does it really cost to run an electric car?

I have been running a PHEV since 2018 but went fully Electric in June 2023.

When working out running costs for EV's it tends to be easiest to work out Pence per mile rather than MPG.

So lets start with a reasonable comparison a similar size vehicle I owned between 2014 and 2018 my Honda CRV 1.6 Diesel ( a really great vehicle).

It averaged about 60MPG even with me driving.

Current Diesel price assume £1.336 /L or more or less £6 per gallon.

At that rate forgetting all other costs 10P per mile.

EVs its all down to Pence/KW

My car does around 4 Miles/KW and if I charge at home off peak using Smart charging is 7p per KWH (Octopus)

That gives me less than 2p per mile.

If I go on a long trip and have to use public charging then I can expect anywhere up to 75p/KWH

Tesla superchargers are much cheaper at typically  40p/KWH or 10P/Mile

If you take the overall over a period of time  most journeys I don't need the public network so overall its around 3.5p per mile in the last 12 moths including a trips to Glasgow, March(Cambridgeshire), Southampton  and 2 trips to St Helens 

I have  a home charger Tesla Wall Charger 7.6 KW 

The Octopus scheme try's to achieve you're  set limit  so I get a minimum of 5 hours but often as many as 7 hours at 7.6 KW/H.

Along with Service periods being typically 50'000 miles+ once you get over the purchase price EV's can be very cheap to run.

Tonight my car will only charge for less than 1 hour  as that's all that's needed top it up.

Cheers

Mike T

How far will it go on full charge?

[Cobaltblue]

Range is like all vehicles dependent on driver style.

The published Maximum range is around 330 miles but just like any vehicle you never run it till it Konks out. Battery size is 75KWH

Realistically its about 300 to 310 miles, The furthest I have personally driven before getting it charged was 291 miles and it was showing a remaining range of 10 miles.

10 years ago I could easily drive 400 miles without stopping, these days after 200 I want to stop get a cup of tea the bathroom and a wander around.

Cheers

Mike T

[Cobaltblue]

Interesting figures, thanks Cobaltblue!

Given that EV's cost more to buy right now, at how many miles do you reckon the break-even point will be?

Tax is likely to be raised on EV in the future to replace lost non-EV vehicle revenue as people changeover.

Quite likely... not only Vehicle Excise Duty, but also fuel duty.

Right now home heating oil is a lot cheaper than petrol or DERV at the pump... because of the road duty. But it's illegal to use home heating oil in my Diesel car.

Yet I could charge an electric car and pay the same tariff as I'd pay to run an electric fire. Some point this may change?

My friend Cassandra says security of supply is more important than savings. No-one ever believes her gloomy predictions but she's always right.

I'd say that the electric vehicle will have better security of supply... it's extremely rare that electricity is off for more than 12 hours, but petrol/diesel supply scares are more common. Moreover, having a generator, it's possible to charge an EV given a few gallons of fuel, but it's not possible to fill up a tankful with access to the National Grid.

I haven't worked out the break even point I might give it a go, The Tesla was 53,000 but my last car was 40,000 and that was over 5 years ago. All the Vehicles I was looking at were all in the upper end of 40K and lower end of 50K at my age I'm done with cheaper cars with their dodgy seats and lack of driver fun. Over the 4 years I will keep it it works out well for me as I need to drive for my job and as our company like to promote its "green credentials" an all electric car is a good choice from both the Tax benefits (Salary Sacrifice) and the amount per mile I get on business trips. I have paid the Balloon payment on 4 out of the last 5 cars to use as our second car.

Who knows what future Governments will do certainly the lucrative Tax that they enjoy on fuel at the moment will have to be replaced by something probably pay per mile which will effect all vehicles including EV's. But the Genie is out of the bottle it wont be easy to tax electricity at differing rates and unlike dyed fuel its not that easy to tell how power was sourced

Having been around Electric cars now for over 10 years I first drove a Nissan Leaf in 2012 it was surprising. Here's the thing not all electric cars are the same.
Having driven quite a few the Chinese, Koreans and Tesla are handing the European and American (other than Tesla) car makers a painful lesson in how to build EV's. The Japanese including the Mighty Toyota seem to be determined to commit Hari Kari and VAG if things don't change will be bankrupt within 3 years
If you interested in what's happening with EV's  what's coming and price reductions check out the Electric Viking, as with any Youtuber you have to be wary of anything said but to date I have found his predictions and views reasonably accurate  (403) The Electric Viking - YouTube

Cheers

Mike T

[Refugee]

Range is like all vehicles dependent on driver style.

You need to add a few more items to that.
Cold weather will mean that the window demisters will be on.
Dark will mean headlights on.
Rain will mean that the windscreen wipers will be on.
Fog will be fog lights on.
The entertainment equipment should use a little bit less as there is less engine noise to be drowned out.

[Doodlebug]

Daylight running lights were made compulsory to ensure
cars can be seen.
It is high time that EV's were made to emit some noise
so they can be heard.
In my village the EV creeps about the narrow lanes like
silent death on wheels.

[ppppenguin]

Most of the ancillaries on an electric car use a negligible amount of power compared to the motors. That includes, lights, wipers, radio etc. The only things that use significant power are heating and aircon. These can definitely affect the range.