How to get the next generation interested in using hand and eye

[Cobaltblue]

All kids are scientist/engineers (two in one) until school beats it out of them

When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school
It's a wonder I can think at all

Kodachrome Paul Simon

Despite having woodwork and metalwork shops at school when it came to careers the mantra seemed to be 'don't do stuff with your hands [especially if it is dirty stuff]'.

The other thing for most of us on here is that we grew up in an analogue world where things were made out of 'big' and obvious parts and at a basic level comparatively simple in operation and it was relatively easy to learn what went on 'under the hood'. I mess with vintage things - radios, cars, cameras, etc. - as they are the only things I now understand. I've worked using a computer for assistance for decades but it's all too clinical. Digital has got no soul. Plus it's a constant upgrade rat race where anything you learned three years ago is useless and worthless. The only satisfaction I get out of working with computers is 'beating the system' by installing the latest Linux on a twelve year-old machine that the manufacturer wishes was in the tip.

Another issue is that in our culture, engineering and the like is poorly regarded. Much better to be something in a suit.



Sorry, I'm a grumpy old man!

Well my two sons went in very different directions.

The eldest is a civil servant and has only recently become interested in a bit of DIY but very competent with Tech (and always has been).

The youngest has always been interested in machines works as an IT specialist and Microsoft trainer.

For fun he finds the muddiest steepest impossible track for his highly modified (by himself) Discovery. If he doesn't rip something off or break something important he's not trying.

He would use a Landrover or a Defender but they are too good to destroy, old Discos are cheap and plentiful.

Sadly neither has any interest in vintage Radio.

I would say that "a twelve year-old machine that the manufacturer wishes was in the tip" was true  80 years ago be it Radio, TV, White Goods or your car and its still true.

The economy moves forward by our Thneeds  ( The Lorax great book ).

Cheers

Mike T

[Pye Man]

I would say that "a twelve year-old machine that the manufacturer wishes was in the tip" was true  80 years ago be it Radio, TV, White Goods or your car and its still true.

I supposed I should have qualified that by saying 'a twelve year-old machine that the manufacturer wished had been in the tip nine years earlier' !

(And best not mention to Apple the [not vintage] job I did on my 22 year old Mac last night!)

[Cobaltblue]

Not wishing to drag this off topic but there is an important point here.

Manufacturers make their money by manufacturing! simples!

The company I work for has a large factory here in the UK.

We design and Manufacture equipment for the domestic market, Europe, and The Americas. very different specs.

Its industrial equipment and its got a design life of 10 years.

We support the equipment with spares etc for 10 years after the unit has gone out of production (No mean feat!)

The equipment type is replaced on average around every 8 years (some types its 15 years).

Some of our customers try to replace the equipment every 10 years on a rolling program but we recovered a piece of equipment in 2018 (still working) that was commissioned in 1976.

Domestic equipment has a design life much shorter phones PC tablets its probably 3 years white goods probably nearer to 7

Recently (certainly the last 10 years) we have had to start to review the product lifecycle because key components have just ceased manufacture sometimes without notice.

The Chips and key parts in computer equipment is changing very fast and for the majority of the users 3 years is accepted as its lifespan. At that point the cost of upgrading the software for the very low number of units in service becomes un-economic.

We recently quoted to add features to a 20 year old unit for a Customer and he was shocked at the cost he could easily buy 100 new units with the feature already present for the same money.

I wish it were not so but that's the reality.

Its only us determined sods not prepared to let good hardware die that try to buck the trend.

Cheers

Mike T

[BusyBee]

I think that to a large extent that has always been the case. Manufacturers and suppiers would always want to increase throughput. It's the same with vehicles with the leasing and suggestion that we change our cars on a fixed time basis. There will always be those who like to get the full life out of equipment, the same as there will be those who like the latest model. It can really mess up a manufacture's sales figures though if a product is demonstrated to regularly not last as long as the buying public would expect.

To get more back on topic though, in my opinion, this has always been the case and there are those who like to get into the works and those who do not. I suppose it is really a case of what you can get into these days. As we know a modern vehicle is so tied together with electronics and sensors that it would be probably virtually impossible to get to component level so replacing modules is as far as it gets. Bypassing systems being fairly impractical and potentially illegal.

Maybe in the early learning sphere it is still possible to go with a crystal radio and further to transistors (also bearing in mind that with miniature valves relatively safe lower voltages can be used). The main point here though is that in years back radio was a major player so was prominent. Nowadays it is not so hence would not have the drive, for most, that it once had. In the electronic field, and bearing in mind the more modualar modern approach, it's more likely that simple microconrtroller setups would have more appeal. Many can be interfaced with wifi and they do connect with computers so would have more appeal to the modern child of more technical aptitude. I find it quite amazing just how cheaply one of these can be setup to do quite complex things, in comparison to what we both did and often still do.

I suspect that with many technical awareness and knowledge comes first and an appreciation and interest in vintage equipment comes later.

Tracy

[Diabolical Artificer]

I've tried to interest my daughter in fettling things over the years. She's had a little go at soldering, but that's it.

I think the issue is that when we were kids, for me, that was the 1970's, we played in our street or mucked about in the countryside. We did the usual stuff, making dens, messing about with modifying pushbikes and what have you, so, for the most part our play was hands on, tactile, interacting with the physical world.

My daughter was born in 2007, when she was young I tried my hardest to find friends in our village for her to play with, it was a real struggle. I was trying to recreate my childhood for her, it was a culture shock to see how much things had changed. , Walk down the few streets in our village you won't see any kids at play, maybe a few older kids kicking a football about, that's it. Come school time all these kids emerge from their homes, but you won't see them them in the village apart from that. They are isolated physically for the most part from other kids their age, but "communicate" by their mobile phones.

I don't know how to reach across this immense generational & cultural divide Mike, we might as well be talking Swahili to them, it concerns me a great deal. That said, the other night I had a bonfire to burn some garden brashings, there was a clear sky, Molly came & sat with me for a while, gazing into the fire, looking at the stars and chatting, it was a moment of deep connection, I regret not doing it more when she was growing up, never too late to change.

So, it is possible to reach across the divide, light a fire, give em a knife & whittle sticks. Build a den? Take them out of the house box & do some fun stuff. Kids love fire, it's an atavistic part of humans, a fire outside beats Eastenders any day. They also like making stuff go bang: blow up a few capacitors etc, then you might be able to get them into making stuff.

In these mad times we live in, we need an activity that takes us away from all the s***, kids most of all.

Andy.

[Doodlebug]

When I was an apprentice I soon found out that those who got their hands dirty,
(toolmakers etc) started work at 7.30am. Those who didn't get their hands dirty,
(designers in drawing offices etc ) started work at 8.3o am and were among attractive young girls !

So the incentives were to be among the girls :-)

[DrStrangelove]

I can't remember the last time I saw a child climbing a tree.

Spent much of my childhood up trees. of which there are a fair few around here.

There are a couple of rope "swings" near the reservoir, though nothing as impressive as we used to get up to.

[ppppenguin]

I've seen plenty of kids climbing trees around north London recently.

[BusyBee]

You can tell by those that do the extreme urban sports that some do climb. I haven't seen so many other than that though. I remember seeing home made tree houses. There are a few these days but they are rarer now. I think there is more of an outcry for the perceived damage being done as it is mainly teenagers rather than younger children. The younger ones are not allowed out as freely as they once were.

Tracy

[Doodlebug]

A friend of mine, a teacher, tells me that children in his school
are not allowed to play conkers anymore due to possible eye damage.
One less hands on experience.

When we were all kids conkers each year was a great sport.
Soaking conkers in vinegar to toughen them up. I don't recall anyone
loosing an eye when a conker shattered