Making a bespoke wooden box.

[Retired]

Hi,

I'm pleased the information was useful Josh and if you feel I could help in any way please just ask. The very best of luck with your exams.

Thank you Jeremy for such glowing comments I feel truly humbled. I'm very much aware of the impact I have on restorations and consider what will happen to them many years from now. I always wherever possible try to use traditional techniques and materials; hide glue is now a favourite of mine and I'm sure in another 70 years someone is going to be very pleased I used it also I never ever oil a cabinet using Danish Oil for the same reason. I'd much rather see a cabinet given a coat of B&Q emulsion than use an oil finish because surface coatings can always be removed whereas oil penetrates; this is my own opinion and of course anyone wishing to apply oil to their own cabinet is entirely up to them as they are the owner and I would never criticise their choice; it's just something I wouldn't do for the reasons given.

I feel deeply that if I can do my best work possible to make something look desirable it won't end up in a skip. I like to tackle unusual projects and when I saw the condition of the wave winder I just had to take pity on it and it did cause me considerable grief during it's restoration but what joy it gives me now just to look at it and give the crank a turn or two. I was totally on my own with the winder restoration as I don't know of anyone else attempting such work; making the gears drove me to tears of frustration at times and gave me many headaches but I won through because I never know when to quit. For the same reason I prefer to tackle basket case woodies; the rougher the better as these give so much pleasure allowing me to really get stuck in.

I hope to attend the next Golborne meeting and if it is OK with Mark I'll be happy to bring along the wave winder and box of gears to put on show and let others give the crank a turn.

I am in contact with two guys; one here in the UK the other in America both having AVO wave winders and both are without the sets of gears. I can understand why the gears and winders become separated as anyone unfamiliar with such a winder it having come into their possession perhaps through bereavement of the owner/user would not understand the importance of such gears in fact the gears would possibly be stored well away from the winder and be easily overlooked to be thrown out at a later date.

Unfortunately I do feel cutting the gears could well be beyond both owners capabilities even with my detailed help; cutting 45 gears at home is a huge undertaking as I found out once I became involved with the restoration. Looking at the new cast iron gears in the nicely French polished hardwood box gives no indication of the hundreds of hours I put in making both the gears and box. I hope to make a brass nameplate for the top of the box to ensure these gears remain with the winder.

Thanks for stressing the need to keep welding rods dry Alan because this is indeed very important. I did mention keeping boxes of rods dry in post #15 as I know just how important it is. Perhaps a new thread covering all aspects of welding would be useful as so many members have shown interest in the subject?

Kind regards, Col.

[ucl82]

I'm pleased the information was useful Josh and if you feel I could help in any way please just ask. The very best of luck with your exams

Many thanks Col, I appreciate it I picked up the pillar drill today and it's working well, just needs the bed cleaning up and a bit of regreasing on the shaft that lowers the whole chuck assembly (I'm unsure of it's correct name).
I also got a circular saw bench, a fairly elderly one but it should clean up ok. Works well, I just want to put a brake on it as upon hitting the off switch it takes ages to power down, no good should an accident occur. I will put some pictures up tomorrow in another thread.

also I never ever oil a cabinet using Danish Oil for the same reason.

That's a very good argument you put forward. Personally Danish Oil is one of my favourite timber finishes as it brings out so many different colours in the timber and gives it a lovely glow, but it is of course not authentic for vintage radios and televisions. I have little experience in French polishing but I guess my radio cabinets are good practise for the business

Josh.

[Retired]

Hi,

Before I miss it again Joe in reply to your post #14; I can't offer any advice on silver soldering as I've only ever done it over 40 years ago and forgotten the details. However I've done brazing but used oxy/acetylene for the heat source and still have brazing rods and Sifbronze flux to hand. For brazing the metal needs heating to cherry red; the filler rod is heated to about 4" from the end and the heated end dipped into the flux; with the metal glowing red the rod is then fed into the joint being made whilst still applying heat; the rod will melt and for a novice the joint will look a mess as the molten rod spreads like water. The residual flux is difficult to remove being extremely hard. Also in this category is case hardening. BMS (bright mild steel) can easily be case hardened by heating to cherry red and applying "Kasenit" powder; once cooled the only way to further work the metal will be by grinding. Boy all this brings memories flooding back.

If you do convert your back room into a workshop Joe just imagine the lathe you could squeeze in.

I'm very pleased to learn you are gathering equipment so quickly Josh and look forward to seeing the pictures.

The part of the drill press you refer to is called by two names; either "Spindle" or "Quill". Quill is also the name of the tail stock spindle in a lathe.

Although I never use Danish oil on vintage radio cabinets I have seen pictures of its use and admit the finish looks beautiful. Danish Oil can be applied by a five year old child as it merely wipes or brushes on then is buffed with a clean cloth. I've used it to good effect on home built wardrobes. The traditional oil is Linseed both "Boiled" and "Raw". Raw linseed oil is the quicker drying of the two and was commonly used many years ago on farmhouse tables; a table top oiled with linseed is undamaged should a hot pan or dish be placed upon it; it is said of such a finish that the timber will always accept another coat of oil and it is this that caused its demise as a proper oiled job could take over a month to apply.

Many years ago Josh I used to visit a family owned sawmill in Lincolnshire; I believe the owner was called Peter and whilst I waited for my order being cut up I would talk to Peter who was a wealth of information on all things timber. Peter told me he used to fell trees in East Anglia mainly Oak and then convert the timber in his sawmill. The point of this Josh is that I always found Peter to be highly approachable and perhaps if you contacted the sawmill explaining what you are trying to do it's possible offcuts could be available at little cost just to get your new venture up and running; of course should you succeed and I sincerely hope you do then a helping hand up front with offcuts could perhaps secure future orders for timber. This is only me thinking aloud and obviously I don't wish to drop an army of woodworkers onto the sawmill all looking for offcuts. If you do contact the sawmill please by all means mention that I recommended them to you and hopefully I'll be remembered by name; Colin Wood from Huddersfield. Also please pass on my best wishes. If at all possible a personal visit would perhaps be best; this will give you an insight into the workings of a sawmill and hopefully you will come away with a selection of timber offcuts; please bear in mind your time is free but this is a working sawmill needing to make money. The company has expanded a great deal since I visited and can be found here;

http://www.billinghaysawmill.co.uk/aboutus.html

I used to visit many companies asking for offcuts and always stating I was happy to pay; could I please look in their skips promising to leave everything tidy and if allowed and I did obtain materials not being charged for them I always followed up with a box of after eight mints or a tin of biscuits as a token gesture and of course I would then be allowed to visit again. I don't swear and am always polite; sometimes a company would rather send their offcuts to landfill than allow me to have them but on the whole I've done very well over the years. I became well known to a local large timber yard and when we moved into this bungalow 24 years ago we owned a Citroen 2CV; I would visit the yard and fill the car with as many offcuts of Meranti hardwood that I could cram in and at the time would be charged about £20 for the load.

Please note that hardwood is always sold as sawn timber and needs planing and thicknessing; by buying scrap woodworking machines and rebuilding them I was then able to convert the sawn timber which I still do to this day; I've saved an absolute fortune over the years; our fully fitted kitchen; and much of our furniture is made of offcuts but unless I tell anyone no one would know.

Just for interest Josh and to show examples of my work made entirely from offcuts I'm pleased to add a few pictures. I made two each lamp and table from offcuts of ordinary joinery grade softwood (pine). These cost nothing for materials and would be an ideal introduction to using a bandsaw and lathe for you. The construction is simple; the table top is made of biscuit jointed planed boards; the top is secured by a round mortise and tenon joint; an under-piece for the top and feet are drilled using a large bit the column has a tenon turned at each end to fit into the drilled holes both being simply glued. The feet are easily profiled with a bandsaw or hand tools.

Both lamps are turned and finished on the lathe to any desired profile; they are long hole bored to accept the round two core flex and plastic lamp holders are used for safety eliminating an earth wire should metal holders have been chosen. Both table and lamp are easy to make and look lovely each side of the bed. I made these many years ago and they still look as good as new; they were finished with Wickes varnish. The wall paneling is also to my own design but I actually spent money buying the timber for this and machining the bead moulding; the dentil moulding is simply individual wooden blocks sanded on the faceplate sander of my giant Dominion lathe when I owned the lathe and glued into position one by one; this detail is also carried around the corners of the ceiling as a wooden cornice.

I find such work most satisfying and of course most of it costs nothing or very little; our bungalow is full of such items.

Kind regards, Col.

[attachment=2060][attachment=2061][attachment=2062][attachment=2063]

[AlanBeckett]

The part of the drill press you refer to is called by two names; either "Spindle" or "Quill".

Col,

I would argue that the part that goes round is the Spindle and the part that goes up and down is the Quill. So, for example, Milling Machines with a fixed Vertical Head are referred to as having no Quill. At least, that's how I understand it over this side if the pond.
Our Colonial cousins seem to have different views - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill.

Alan

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Alan. Unfortunately when I tried to open the link you supplied I received the following;


Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Drill. in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.
Search for "Drill." in existing articles.
Look for pages within Wikipedia that link to this title.

Have I missed something?

Regarding the description I supplied to Josh to clarify the name of the part of the drill press he mentioned I maintain I'm correct. I was always taught that on such a drill press the part in question could be called by either spindle or quill although I did add this from memory so to double check I too have now looked to the Internet and found the following sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill

Please scroll down to "Drill press" and it is clearly stated that the spindle and quill are the same item.

Regarding my reference to a lathe tail stock I also checked this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailstock

As I stated the section of the tail stock is called the quill; or at least it is in the text under Tailstock but clicking on the Tailstock image the part identified as T5 is now called the spindle which to me is incorrect as this part does not rotate being only linear in motion.

I'm very familiar with both drills of all kinds and lathes but thought it worthwhile checking the information I supplied.

As you know Alan there are many machines including milling machines that you mention and; I've never given any thought to the names of the actual moving parts of these machines and merely wanted to explain to Josh what the part of his drill press was called. There is so much information on the Internet that it would be easy to identify just about any part of any machine by name.

Here is an interesting video for Josh showing a five axis machine in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCaRqQ8Qf8

I think Alan we both would like one of these machines in our garage.

Kind regards, Col.

[AlanBeckett]

Col,

Odd. That's the link I intended to put in, so something went wrong.
Sorry me old mate, but the fundamental bit about the Lathe Tailstock is that it doesn't go round, so it is indeed a quill and not a spindle.
I'm not sure about wanting a CNC Centre. Would you really want to spend your time sitting in front of a screen programming it all up? I don't think I would.

Alan

[Retired]

Hi,

You can't beat the old stuff Alan; this modern technology isn't all its cracked up to be.

We are alike in our love of old machinery and I totally agree that it wouldn't be fun working with a CNC machine all day long but as I'm a fossil I wouldn't mind trying one out just to compare between old and new machining methods.

Kind regards, col.

[AlanBeckett]

Col,
I don't know. Half of me says I'd like to try it and the other half says I'd rather set to and do it manually. At the Model Engineering Exhibition a couple of Companies usually have demos of simple CNC, and it looks wonderful, but how long did it take to set up and get right. When I was working the big problem was to find someone who could do small one-offs at a reasonable price. In practice I did a good few myself.
I made the replacement vertical shafts for my Westwood Clippers when they broke on my old Bantam. Yes, it took a (relatively) long time, but my time is free. It's interesting to note that my 1930s double V-bed Drummond has auto longitudinal and cross feed which works splendidly.
I think I should drop it off with you
Alan

[ucl82]

Wood lathes don't have to be big, ours is a small table top affair and is more than adequate for making many things.

Col,
Danish Oil certainly is a beautiful finish and I love it for many different things I have made, will have to get some pictures up on here at some point of what I've been making. As you say it is a very easy finish to apply and so long as it is sanded in between coats and polished with fine grade wire wool covered in beeswax it gives a fantastic soft glow and super smooth finish.

I have actually been to a couple of sawmills recently, truly wonderful places filled with some stunning timber. The first was on a school arranged trip, the second was on a shopping trip for the design department with one of the teachers (myself and my friend/business parter spend so much time in the design/woodwork department- until half 5 at night and all our free periods- that we are almost staff now!). We've been there a couple of times now, they are all nice chaps there and we have bought a fair bit of timber from them (mainly oak) for a good price too. They were also happy to cut some of the longer bits down so they would fit in the back of the school's mini-bus! Our teacher also lives in a cottage on a country estate and he's good friends with one of the foresters and is often granted permission to take some timber from the firewood pile, recently a truly beautiful yew tree was saved from being burnt, it's absolutely amazing what some people want to destroy. To me it's nature's work of art. Can I also just say how appropriate your surname is :D

Your work looks great, I have mostly been turning random scraps of pine I have found laying about and have simply tried making different curves etc and teaching myself new techniques. I guess there's no reason why I can't turn (excuse the pun) these practise pieces into full products!

Please see some attached pictures of the sawbench and drill press. I believe the sawbench to be a Walker-Turner model B745 in which case it dates from about 1940. It works well (has had a replacement motor, sometime in the 1960s by the looks of it) and the bearings are clearly in good shape too, gives a wonderful nice straight cut. I'm hoping to make some sort of braking system for it, and I will also be modifying the stand slightly (to accommodate the replacement motor better) and replace all the wiring as it is in a very dangerous state. Other than that not too bad for £50 I think.
The drill press is a more modern affair made by Nu-Tool but it works well and just needs a good clean up.

Just need some jack planes, a bandsaw and a thicknesser and we should have all we need for now (and then save up for a jointer). It's certainly turning out to be very expensive so hopefully we will start getting some money back soon!

[Yorkie]

It may be hard to have a wood lathe in a 6x4 shed :/
Though it could go in the 'Store Room'

Many woodturners use quite small lathes as they only make small items. The factors to consider when thinking of acquiring a lathe are:

1) The diameter over the bed: This diameter is twice the distance from the centre of the chuck to the bed of the lathe and will be described as the 'diameter over the bed, so for example, if the clearance from the chuck centre to bed of the lathe was 125mm, it would be described as 'diameter ove the bed, 300mm'. That would mean that you could turn an object such as a bowl or a platter, with a diameter up to 300mm.

2) Distance between Centres: This is the distance between the headstock and the tailstock when you have a pronged drive in the headstock and a live centre in the tailstock. If you use a chuck rather than a faceplate on which to mount a piece of timber (as you must to turn such things as bowls), that reduces the distance between centres. However, if you are doing spindle work, you don't generally use a chuck so have more clearance. On some lathes, you can buy 'bed extensions' to make the distance between centres longer.

3) Speeds available: The smaller the diameter of what you are turning, the faster needs to be the speed, and vice versa, because what matters is the amount of material passing the tool at a given speed. For example, if you are turnnig a fountain pen barrel 15mm in diameter, (45 mm circumferance) for each revolution, 45mm of material travels past the cutting tool. If on the other hand, you are turning a bowl 300mm in diameter, 900mm of material travels past the tool per rev -twenty times as much, so the lathe needs to be set to a lower speed, which you learn by experience.

4) Motor power: The motor will be matched to the turning capacity of the lathe, and that will dictate the capability of the lathe to turn objects of a given size. Quite low powered motors can turn out good work if you take light cuts of the timber. You can of course turn small items on a large lathe, but not the other way around. To turn such things as table lamps and stair spindles you need a longer distance between centres – 1 Metre or more.

For most people setting out in woodturning, it's best to gain practice by turning small objects from scrap wood rather than anything too ambitious. Typically, beginners will turn items such as mushrooms, fruit (apples etc), light 'pulls' for ceiling mounted switches, door wedges, garden bulb 'dibbers', letter openers, doll's house 'miniatures', small clocks and pens, (which require a pen turning kit consisting of a mandrel, drill and a few other bits). Very nice wooden presentation boxes in which to put pens are available quite cheaply, as are the hardware and pen 'blanks in timber and acrylic. A schoolboy member of the woodturning club of which I'm secretary has been turning pens for some years, which he sells to relatives, teachers, parents and friends, often for them to give to others as gifts.

At this link there are short videos on pen turning, outlining the eight components which go into making a typical pen or pencil, the materials and tools needed, and how to go about it:

http://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/acatalo...ories.html

There are many small lathes on the market, and one such lathe can be seen here:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jet-jml-1...rod362338/

That lathe has a capcity of 250mm over the bed, 350mm between centres, six speeds from 400 - 3300 RPM, and a 500Watt motor, suitable for a wide range of small work, and is to 'trade' rather than 'DIY' standard.

Mushrooms and fruit can be turned from unseasoned timber such as 'branchwood'. Turning other objects such as bowls from 'green' (unseasoned) timber can be problematical for beginners.

I have to say that it's very hard to make any money from woodturning, though the items I've mentioned above are small value items which - when experience is gained can be made quite quickly, and sell well at craft fairs where you don't pay too much for a table. EG, at village church halls and fetes. I have to say that to make things to sell, unless it's top flight stuff to sell in galleries, you have to compromise on the standard of finish. For example, it can take longer to sand and finish say 15cm diameter bowl than it does to turn it, and for craft fairs, people seem to go for shiny things, so you end up spraying things with high gloss lacquer rather than shellac friction polish. The higher you skill, the less inclined you become to turn out stuff below your own best standard.

I saw a small wooden bowl in yew, at a gallery recently, which wasn't especially well turned. The wall thickness wasn't even, there was a slight dimple in the bottom and circular marks underneath which should have been sanded out. It wasn't to competition standard and given that it was in a gallery, proably represents the extent of that turtner's abilities. It was priced at £45, and if the turner had to buy a part-seasoned blank it would have cost him about £10. It would have taken him perhaps three hours to turn, sand and finish. The selling price includes VAT, so the net price asked by the gallery is £37.50. Galleries typically take a 40% 'cut' of whatever they sell, so when and if that items does sell, £15.00 will be taken by the gallery, and £22.50 will go to the turner. Taking off the cost of the blank - say £10.00, leaves £12.50 for three hours work and other incidental expenses such as power, sanding and finishing materials. That’s about £4.00 an hour, below the National Minimum wage for an adult, which is £5.93.

That said, many avid woodturners don’t see craft fairs as a money-making activity, but as a way of disposing of items which simply build up until the house, and those of their friends and relatives are full of stuff, which – when one visits, they have to remember to get out of the cupboard and put on display for fear they might upset you! However, it can also be an ego-boost to know that if people buy your work, it’s a vote of confidence in your skill. I'm lucky to have an understanding wife - I put things in cupboards that I've made but am not enthralled with, and she later takes them out and puts them on display when I'm not looking!

There are countless excellent videos of woodturning on youtube, and if anyone is thinking of taking up woodturning as a hobby, I’d recommend visiting the nearest woodturning club, which usually have a professional demonstrator at each meeting, and often offer free tuition. Most clubs will have a notice-board full of lathes and other equipment such as chucks and gouges for sale quite cheaply. It goes without saying that there are dangers and hazards and eye, ear and breathing protection are essential.

Hope these ramblings are of interest, and not too discouraging!

David