Songs Banned By The BBC

[Yorkie]

They offered me a bible in court the other week.. could have played along but I'm inherently honest so what worth an oath sworn on something I find irrelevant and hilarious?

There is no requirement to swear an oath on a bible or any other holy book in court - anyone giving evidence, be they a witness or defendant, has the option of taking an 'affirmation' and those options should be explained by the court usher. (In youth courts, under 18s don't 'swear' to tell the truth, they 'promise' to tell the truth, because 'swearing' has other connotations to children). The ushers have a card with the religious oath on one side, the affirmation on the other.

I sat as a magistrate for twenty years until 2006, during which time I dealt with more than 20,000 cases, I never felt that either the religious oath or the affirmation carried much weight. Most take the oath, perhaps believing that in so doing, their evidence might carry more weight, or assuming that it's a necessary ritual. An alarmingly high proportion who take the stand can't actually read the oath from the card - the court usher has to read it line by line and say: 'repeat after me'...

I had my 15 minutes of fame when I had a letter published in 'The Magistrate' magazine, which found its way onto TV news, in which I stated that courts of law are not places of worship, and the purpose of the oath was to get to the truth and spell out the consequences of not so doing - it is not an act of religious observance. I asserted that the oath should be along the lines of: 'I realise that I must tell the truth, and that if I tell lies I commit the offence of perjury, which carries a sentence of imprisonment'. Needless to say, the Lord Chancellor opposed such a change, and magistrates continue to be subjected to oath training in the intricacies of a wide range of religions, and courts have a range of religious books. (An oath taken on any religious book, be it of the faith of the individual, or by those with no faith is still a valid oath).

I stress that I'm not wishing to engage in a religious debate and thereby push the boundaries of one of the few rules that we have on this excellent forum, I simply wanted to clarify the position and to explain that no-one is required to take a religious oath if they prefer not to, and in my experience, court ushers outline the options many times a day, though no doubt that varies from user to usher, and court to court.

Hope it's of interest.

Mods: Do please delete this post if considered inappropriate.

[Joe]

Nothing wrong in that David. I'd been wondering about it myself.

- Joe

[Tedzed1]

Fine by me also David, Very informative.

[Mark R]

We are getting towards the religion/politics stuff. Everyone has an opinion on these, but this I feel is not the place for this OT stuff. It is not like me to say this, but some of you may know my job, including a Wildlife Crime officer for GMP. It is not appropriate to discuss the where and wherewithal of bovine TB here (though I did for my degree in conservation biology including the Krebs report), Government decisions, current, or outdated (my opinion) requirements of a Court of Law. This is for the law makers in Westminster. As regards Badgers yes I have my opinion but as we are a Radio and TV forum I shall not voice them, please consider this when replying to this thread.
As such no posts have been removed, but that option remains.

cheers Mark

[pwdrive]

Hello David, that is a very good insight that you have given...While doing my family history research I came across the records of the Old Bailey which are on line, in these records I found several references to distant members of the family, while studying these records I became interested how sentences seemed to change over the years, at one piont they more or less hanged everybody for anything but later on when they needed bodies for the colonies they were sentanced to so many years "beyond the seas" usually a reference to Van Damiens Land and Australia.
One trial concerned a young boy who was a wittness to a burglary he was one of our distant relatives, his name was Daniel Sharpe, below is a link to the court transcription at the Old Bailey at that time, iot is interesting how they stress the meaning of the "oath" in the first paragraph of the transcription.
Reading through many of the trials is interesting reading from a history piont of view.
Here is the link:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ance...ly1781.htm

Lawrence.

[Skywave]

Mark - very diplomatically put - a response quite unlike what I would have expected elsewhere. For myself, I feel that this thread has run its course. I have no intention of making further contributions to it.

Al.

[Paula A]

Thanks for the insights into various areas where people feel strongly or otherwise. I think a thread about state broadcasting and censorship is always going to get to the edge of the politics and religion boundaries.

Anyway.. the outcome of my week has been that a certain Paddy Power Cheltenham advert now won't be seen. I have been asked to write a piece for the San Francisco Times about the manner of the campaign and the various groups who took a stand, including my involvement in it. Lesson learned... when your group tells you to sign as their President it can drag you into the sights of the worlds media in unexpected ways, and that when a community pulls together from different directions it doesn't matter how big the opposition think they are..
The next thing you might hear about it is if a few people decide to go and carry out some direct actions for a bit of media attention at Cheltenham on the day, mainly to muck up their "competition" and have some fun Mark may have seen an internal memo warning that certain groups are planning something unspecified on the day. I can confirm there is something being set up.. but thats all.. .. hehehehehe.. *you haven't seen me... right*

Topic ends.. unless anybody has any other seemingly bizarre banned songs

[pwdrive]

Hello Mark, thanks for letting the forum know, I had no idea about your job until you just mentioned it so please except my appologies regarding my badger rant, I guess wildlife crime is a difficult one sometimes, one officer, large area, at night etc. I still get unauthorised shooting in my woodland viz a viz fresh cartridge cases still being found and a couple of years ago we found a deer carcass in the wood in a place that I find was strange for a deer to die. Anyway I will leave it at that.

Lawrence.