Electronics

[Craig]

Well, Tesla's patents refer to "electric machines". And the word "electricity" was first used in the mid 1600's, and in those days referred to static electricity, from the latin word for amber, electrum.

But the use of flowing electric current was put to use, by Tesla, Edison, Faraday etc long before its cause was understood. The word electron was actually a portmanteau work by fusing together electric and ion to make the word electron, and definitely postdates J J Thompson's work in 1897 (for which he received the Nobel prize in 1906).

The discovery and use of a phenomenon before a theoretical understanding was put in place, similarly, was in superconductivity. Discovered by the Swede Heike Kamerlingh Onnes in 1911, and experimented with in the decades following, it was only in 1957 that the theory was finally put in place by Bardeen, Cooper and Schrieffer (after Feynman failed to figure it out).

[Crackle]

Maybe one could say that in the early days they were more concerned with the "conventional" current flow. Then they became more aware of the electron flow. Maybe that was the start of "electronics".
But I have always considered items that only rely on wires and batteries, coils and maybe capacitors like early telegraph to be simple electrics.
Start to add more complex circuitry with active components and you have electronics.

Mike

[Terry]

 I have always considered items that only rely on wires and batteries, coils and maybe capacitors like early telegraph to be simple electrics.

So you think of the high power spark transmitters on ocean going liners like the Titanic to be only simple electrics?

[ppppenguin]

Grey area. I would have trouble referring to them as electronics because no active devices (triodes, transistors, possibly thermionic diodes, possibly crystals) were involved.

[reset]

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‘When did electronics branch out as a separate arm of electrics?’

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That could vary with location ( country) but here in  the USA it went like this. In the late 1920s  a  radio repairman was called a radiotrician. The term was patented in 1929. When you graduated the NRI course and passed the exam you became a Radiotrician. The FCC would award you a Radio Engineers license. This would be separate from the electrical field and would not qualify you to work in the electric field. So one answer would be 1929. The NRI course material is available here if you are interested:

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Nati...o_1930.htm

Another answer could be based on the transition of Radio Age magazine to Electronic Age in 1957.
(The question here is, "Was radio electronics or did electronics begin about the time the first ICs appeared?".)

In 1929 radio was separated from electrics and in the 1950s electronics was separated from electrics. So there is no simple answer to the question. In the 1970 the electricians wanted no part of the computer so the ETs took them as a separate field. In the 1980s the electricians discovered the computer age was coming and wanted them back. I worked in an E&I shop and an I&E shop in the 1980s. In 2000 I worked as an Electrician doing electric, instrument  and computer.
So it went full circle. I graduated the NRI course in the '60s and became a radiotrician. In the '70s USAF made me an ET (avionics technician). In the '80s I worked on whatever the electricians couldn't or didn't want to. In the '90s I worked on everything electric or electronics under 13.8 Kv. (We do distinguish between outside electricians (linemen) and inside electricians (wiremen). Our apprentices are required to complete an electronics course in order to become journeyman electricians so the two have become one again.

I'm not sure I answered your question but maybe it's better than my first post. 
73

[Craig]

An interesting (or not!) factoid is to do with how slow electrons move in a copper wire. A DC current of 10A flowing in a typical conductor for that purpose only moves at about a quarter millimeter per second, or about 2km per year. The reason is that every copper atom in the wire contributes one electron - so there an awful lot of free electrons in there.

Cut the current to 1mA, and the electrons flow at 20cm per year - the span of your hand.

Of course if the current is AC, all the electrons do is shuffle back and forth. So a 10A rms current at 50Hz will shuffle the electrons back and forth by 350 microns peak to peak.

[Terry]

Grey area. I would have trouble referring to them as electronics because no active devices (triodes, transistors, possibly thermionic diodes, possibly crystals) were involved.

So you wouldn't classify the coherer as an active device, then? I know I'm jumping from transmitter to receiver here but the two do go hand in hand.

Also, the Titanic was equipped with a thermionic diode detector, although I think the traditional and proven coherer was also installed.

Following your rationale, the transmitter was electric but the receiver was electronic - but only if the valve detector was being used ...

[unrealdave]

This is getting good.  

I don’t think there is one correct or definitive answer.

I could say that electronics began with early electronic communication – which really started with the electromagnet and telegraphy.  (Is it not a device, and controlled electronically?)  The headphones – controlled electronically or not?

Or

I could say that electronics began with early electronic telephony communication – converting sound waves to electrical waves and back again.

Or

I could say that electronics began with wireless communication (telegraphy) which really started with the spark gap transmitter.  Same concept as wired telegraphy system just better, more sophisticated electronic devices enabling us to dispense with wires.

Or (you guessed it)

I could say that electronics began with wireless communication (telephony) with again even more sophisticated electronic devices.

Just for an example here are a couple of early electronic devices I picked up last Tuesday    1922 - 1923.  definitely electronic devices?

[unrealdave]

I am going with this from Wikipedia

Electronics is distinct from electrical and electro-mechanical science and technology, which deal with the generation, distribution, switching, storage, and conversion of electrical energy to and from other energy forms using wires, motors, generators, batteries, switches, relays, transformers, resistors, and other passive components. This distinction started around 1906 with the invention by Lee De Forest of the triode, which made electrical amplification of weak radio signals and audio signals possible with a non-mechanical device. Until 1950 this field was called "radio technology" because its principal application was the design and theory of radio transmitters, receivers, and vacuum tubes.

[pwdrive]

I'd go with that too.

Lawrence.