HMV Barn Project

[Nowhere-Man]

Trevor's covered it really regarding removing old components that have been wrapped around tags etc, a fine pair of decent quality side cutters also makes life a lot easier, I've always removed the bulk with a solder sucker then finished of with some solder wick then unravel/cut using a sharp pointed tool and fine side cutters.

Lawrence.

I found some great wire snippers. You have to be so careful to snip only the lead and not something else. So far so good. I did have a weird problem on one soldering connection today that had me frustrated. It just wouldn't take at all. Normally it's fine but maybe I think the iron got too hot. I switched it off for a bit and started again and finally the joint seemed O.K.

I'm not under any pressure with this set at all as it's my third repair. Given it's definitely a very hard radio for me to work on, due to 15 or so years in a barn, I'm not going to be hung up if I don't succeed. I'll just give it my best shot and stay calm. However, I think there's a good chance it can be fixed up so it's a learning curve for now.

[Crackle]

The external speaker plug in socket may also be kaput as its resistor measured 0 ohms across the OT secondary but as normal when removed. I'll look into that later. Not sure as of yet.

I dont understand this.

NM, You have not yet identified the model of HMV so it is going to be very to offer any specific advice.

It is sometimes necessary to remove a couple of wires to get at a component which is buried under wires and components close to the chassis in a radio. But I have never had to consider removing a whole tagstrip, that would make the job 10 times more difficult and, as you say, prone to errors if you put the wires back in the wrong place.

The skills needed to cleanly remove and replace old components will come with patience and practice.  As Trevor has suggested, dismantling an old scrap radio can give you lots of practice before you start on a radio you wish to restore.


Mike

[Nowhere-Man]

The external speaker plug in socket may also be kaput as its resistor measured 0 ohms across the OT secondary but as normal when removed. I'll look into that later. Not sure as of yet.

I dont understand this.

NM, You have not yet identified the model of HMV so it is going to be very to offer any specific advice.

It is sometimes necessary to remove a couple of wires to get at a component which is buried under wires and components close to the chassis in a radio. But I have never had to consider removing a whole tagstrip, that would make the job 10 times more difficult and, as you say, prone to errors if you put the wires back in the wrong place.

The skills needed to cleanly remove and replace old components will come with patience and practice.  As Trevor has suggested, dismantling an old scrap radio can give you lots of practice before you start on a radio you wish to restore.


Mike

Access is very limited on this set. You'd never be able to thread capacitor wires at the far end of the "ladder" without freeing the whole thing up. It's also held by joints to valve pins or wires that disappear through holes and re-emerge. It's the hardest soldering project to date for me. I think the mind-set was to make it strong and make it last. From the service perspective, it's an unfriendly radio. I think the traditional way of doing it was wiser. In fact, other people who have personally seen the "ladder" described it as a nightmare. You can also see the odd bulge in the wax capacitors so they have to all come out.

[Murphyv310]

The external speaker plug in socket may also be kaput as its resistor measured 0 ohms across the OT secondary but as normal when removed. I'll look into that later. Not sure as of yet.

I dont understand this.

NM, You have not yet identified the model of HMV so it is going to be very to offer any specific advice.

It is sometimes necessary to remove a couple of wires to get at a component which is buried under wires and components close to the chassis in a radio. But I have never had to consider removing a whole tagstrip, that would make the job 10 times more difficult and, as you say, prone to errors if you put the wires back in the wrong place.

The skills needed to cleanly remove and replace old components will come with patience and practice.  As Trevor has suggested, dismantling an old scrap radio can give you lots of practice before you start on a radio you wish to restore.


Mike

Access is very limited on this set. You'd never be able to thread capacitor wires at the far end of the "ladder" without freeing the whole thing up. It's also held by joints to valve pins or wires that disappear through holes and re-emerge. It's the hardest soldering project to date for me. I think the mind-set was to make it strong and make it last. From the service perspective, it's an unfriendly radio. I think the traditional way of doing it was wiser. In fact, other people who have personally seen the "ladder" described it as a nightmare. You can also see the odd bulge in the wax capacitors so they have to all come out.

Hi.
I really think you need to post more photos of your progress, it'll help both you and us. I really don't think access is that bad or it's hard to feed a wire through a tag on a tag strip if you've cleaned off the old solder and removed redundant wire. 
I'm sure others like myself have repaired thousands if not tens of thousands sets in our time as service engineers.
Don't forget that whatever was built can be dismantled and repaired. Time and patience is what you need.

[Crackle]

I have just looked at your first photo again and can just make out that what you are referring to looks like 2 paxolin strips mounted one above the other on brackets fixed to the chassis. The components are mounted across this with their leads inserted into holes and bent around the paxolin strip. I have to admit to not seeing this arrangement before.

Can somebody please confirm what the correct term is for this type of "tagstrip"

Personally I would just snip the faulty component out, leaving some of the component wire on the tagstrip, then solder in the new component onto the snipped ends of the original component. If the soldered joint is properly tinned and overlapped by 5mm or more then it will be reliable.

Do you know the model number of the radio yet, and can you please tell us.

Photos, Photos, Photos, - but please reduce the pixel count size to something sensible like 1280 x 1024 even a clear photo 800 x 600 can show an awful lot.
Thanks
mike

[Mark Hennessy]

Photos, Photos, Photos, - but please reduce the pixel count size to something sensible like 1280 x 1024 even a clear photo 800 x 600 can show an awful lot.
Thanks
mike

I'd settle for them being in focus. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before, but we need to work out how to put this camera into "macro" mode. Failing that, take images from further away, where the camera can actually focus, then take a crop of the area of interest if desired.

NM, please allow me to make an appeal:

It's worth thinking about the quality of the advice you're getting here. It's coming from people who have a lot of knowledge and experience, and it's automatically "peer reviewed", in that if someone says something that isn't quite right, someone else will be along to clarify as needed. That's the wonderful thing about internet forums, of course, and especially here, where we have a stated aim of being especially open to those who are starting out. And, it's all free of charge! But remember that people are giving their time voluntarily.

If asking for help and advice, good clear photos and communication are a must. Right now, people are trying their best to help, and there is a lot of really good advice being given, but this goodwill can only last for so long before frustration sets in. For example, at a glance I see at least two threads where no model number has been given! It's a 2-way street, so help us to help you

Hope this helps,

Mark

[Nowhere-Man]

Photos, Photos, Photos, - but please reduce the pixel count size to something sensible like 1280 x 1024 even a clear photo 800 x 600 can show an awful lot.
Thanks
mike

I'd settle for them being in focus. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before, but we need to work out how to put this camera into "macro" mode. Failing that, take images from further away, where the camera can actually focus, then take a crop of the area of interest if desired.

NM, please allow me to make an appeal:

It's worth thinking about the quality of the advice you're getting here. It's coming from people who have a lot of knowledge and experience, and it's automatically "peer reviewed", in that if someone says something that isn't quite right, someone else will be along to clarify as needed. That's the wonderful thing about internet forums, of course, and especially here, where we have a stated aim of being especially open to those who are starting out. And, it's all free of charge! But remember that people are giving their time voluntarily.

If asking for help and advice, good clear photos and communication are a must. Right now, people are trying their best to help, and there is a lot of really good advice being given, but this goodwill can only last for so long before frustration sets in. For example, at a glance I see at least two threads where no model number has been given! It's a 2-way street, so help us to help you

Hope this helps,

Mark

Mark, I'm not asking for advice in this thread. I'm simply sharing what I'm doing at the moment. However, as you requested the actual model of the HMV - that would seem to be a reasonable demand. So, it's a 1124. I did find that some years back one of these came by the way of Howard Craven (there was an old thread on it started by Howard). He decided to pass on it as it lacks F.M. and only has Medium and Longwaves. Also, a lot of people understandably dislike wooden cabinet radios.

Now, Crackle basically confirmed what I was saying earlier about the "ladder" structure he says he's not seen it before. I also feel inclined to agree with Crackle as to the approach of just soldering onto the overhangs. That is what I decided to do. Basically you need to very carefully snip out the old capacitor. When they come off they are pretty black and blistered. You have to chemically clean them to decipher the ratings (many are around 0.047). And the best way to solder on the new cap is to make very strong solder joints with stiff, sleeved cable on all the reverse tags and wind the new cable to the front over and under the front rungs or bars. This then allows you to bridge far shorter spans and I use my usual Wimas for this. I clean all old leads with surgical spirit and the soldering is in very closed spaces.

I just got back from Maplins and am simply not happy with the pots they have. Too flimsy and modern. I also have a 3 inch shaft on mine and the lugs are much larger and more spaced. I decided to leave it and see if I can get a proper vintage pot and double pole switch. Unless maybe I can repair the old pot.

[Terry]

I just got back from Maplins and am simply not happy with the pots they have. Too flimsy and modern. I also have a 3 inch shaft on mine and the lugs are much larger and more spaced. I decided to leave it and see if I can get a proper vintage pot and double pole switch. Unless maybe I can repair the old pot.

You may have to accept that the only replacement available to you today is going to be much more modern than you would like but you are not attempting to restore this set to its original condition - your posts have made this very clear - so why does it matter?

You may find something more to your liking here: http://www.partridgeelectronics.co.uk/17Cresistors.htm  (scroll down to the bottom) but I haven't done an intensive search of their stock.*

As for component replacement where it is not possible (or advisable) to completely remove the original, I would always leave sufficient wire from the original to bend it back against itself to form a U shaped loop, repeat this on the new component and then hook the two together. Then squeeze together with pliers - both ends - to create a strong mechanical joint before soldering.

* This applies to all pots: if the spindle is longer than required, mark the correct length clearly on the shaft and then cut the spindle to length ensuring that the waste part of the spindle is securely held in a vice. Never, ever, hold the pot in the vice!

[Nowhere-Man]

I just got back from Maplins and am simply not happy with the pots they have. Too flimsy and modern. I also have a 3 inch shaft on mine and the lugs are much larger and more spaced. I decided to leave it and see if I can get a proper vintage pot and double pole switch. Unless maybe I can repair the old pot.

You may have to accept that the only replacement available to you today is going to be much more modern than you would like but you are not attempting to restore this set to its original condition - your posts have made this very clear - so why does it matter?

You may find something more to your liking here: http://www.partridgeelectronics.co.uk/17Cresistors.htm  (scroll down to the bottom) but I haven't done an intensive search of their stock.*

As for component replacement where it is not possible (or advisable) to completely remove the original, I would always leave sufficient wire from the original to bend it back against itself to form a U shaped loop, repeat this on the new component and then hook the two together. Then squeeze together with pliers - both ends - to create a strong mechanical joint before soldering.

* This applies to all pots: if the spindle is longer than required, mark the correct length clearly on the shaft and then cut the spindle to length ensuring that the waste part of the spindle is securely held in a vice. Never, ever, hold the pot in the vice!

I'm a bit lost by what my posts have made clear about not restoring the HMV to its original condition? I'm aware some people like to stuff original capacitors with new ones but the originals in this case were really too blistered and degraded to bother with that. Sure, I've seen capacitors that are maybe worth re-using for originality but this set has had a fair few Winters on the Moorlands in storage.

Apart from that, it will still have the original rectifier and all the original tubes, including the X78 that's quite a good valve to own.

I tested the speaker and it's O.K. The primary transformer seems O.K. although I won't really know till I voltage test it properly in a couple of weeks. Hopefully the valves will be O.K. but fingers crossed.

The GEC was different altogether as it had no rectifier valve or indeed any valves. It will never be an original radio due to that but the main thing is it works and works very well audio-wise. 

The HMV does stand a chance of being pretty much the same radio that was used back in 1953 because it's not been tampered with.

I attempted to upload a pic of more work I did today and I'm afraid it's a no go. I took the pic from further away and shrunk it on Microsoft but the pop-up keeps saying it has too many pixels. It seems my FujiFilm camera doesn't seem to much use where size is an issue.

[Mark Hennessy]

I attempted to upload a pic of more work I did today and I'm afraid it's a no go. I took the pic from further away and shrunk it on Microsoft but the pop-up keeps saying it has too many pixels. It seems my FujiFilm camera doesn't seem to much use where size is an issue.

"Microsoft" what?

Microsoft are a company that write software products. To which product do you refer? Could it be Microsoft Paint, perhaps?

Sorry if that seems ultra-pedantic, but it's an example of the "clarity of communication" that I was referring to earlier.

I'm not aware that the forum limits the number of pixels contained within an image (but I'm very interested to learn if this is indeed the case). Are you sure that's what the forum software said? Are you sure it didn't complain about the size of the file?

Certainly, as far as I know, the only limit is indeed the size of the file. This is discussed in a "sticky" thread within the "Forum Helpdesk" forum: http://golbornevintageradio.co.uk/forum/...p?tid=4835

Could you tell me the model of your FujiFilm camera, please? I'd like to check the specifications and see if I can find a manual on-line - I'd like to see if I can help you with the close-up images.

All the best,

Mark