21-01-2022, 04:54 PM
Totally understand, Trevor - I joined this thread reluctantly, but my posts were attempts at stopping another circular thread. That's the inevitable outcome of subjectivity, sadly.
Your comment about interpreting the results is really important. Rob, please do not take offence at that - as soon as you make measurements in a room, you do have to rely on experience to decide what the room is doing to the results. Of course, none of us are born with that experience - it takes practice. I can help, but ultimately you'll have to put in the legwork.
If nothing else, i can copy/paste bits from handouts that I prepared for work, where we teach engineers about audio measurements, including speakers. We do a practical session that gives people a feeling for what's going on - sadly time constraints mean that it's not terribly in-depth, but as we no longer design our own speakers, that's fine.
In fact, it's better than that, because it shows that the variation in results from professional monitors is really quite surprising. Since we stopped making our own designs, our selection exercises have been purely subjective, on the assumption that monitor speakers will satisfy the really quite fundamental requirement of a basically flat frequency response. But my ears told me differently. My measurement setup simply confirms what I heard, but gives me the data I need to convince people who invest rather too much faith in their hearing.
The more I've learnt over the years about the human hearing system, the less trusting of it I've become. Yes, it's capable of picking out some amazing levels of detail, but it's absolutely hopeless as an absolute measuring tool.
One thing the ear is good at is dealing with reflective rooms - though this ability diminishes with age (the "cocktail party" effect). The measuring mic is not so clever. A technique called "gating" helps, but limits the lowest frequencies you can sensibly measure at the standard 1 metre (typically around 500Hz in a room with an 8 foot ceiling). But that's OK, as the crossover region is the thing you really need to measure during the design process, and bass is relatively easy anyway (modelling software is pretty good). You can take near-field measurements in a room, or put the speaker on top of a 6 foot ladder in the garden if needed. But more on all that later, when the measurement mic is up and running...
Back to the room, if any sort of treatment is out of the question, then just commit "hi-fi heresy" and use the tone controls (or get hold of a graphic equaliser). For non-critical use, it'll be fine. It would be different if you were mixing music, of course. But personally, I really hate lively environments caused by the all too fashionable minimalist interior designs. People underestimate the negative effect bad acoustics can have on their state of mind. This is something that architects take very seriously today, as it can affect footfall - hence profits - in shopping centres, restaurants and the like - there was a really interesting Radio 4 programme about this about a decade ago. I first noticed it about 15-20 years ago when it was subconsciously affecting my choice of local curry-house (we have lots to choose from here!). Definitely not what I'd want in a relaxation room.
But please, no more talk about speaker cables. This is an engineering forum; I am an audio engineer. If you seriously believe that correctly specified audio cables sound significantly different, then you will really struggle to learn about how audio really works. The short-sharp-shock that normally cures people of this is to look at the cables used in broadcast centres and recording studios. It's eye-opening, to say the least!
Your comment about interpreting the results is really important. Rob, please do not take offence at that - as soon as you make measurements in a room, you do have to rely on experience to decide what the room is doing to the results. Of course, none of us are born with that experience - it takes practice. I can help, but ultimately you'll have to put in the legwork.
If nothing else, i can copy/paste bits from handouts that I prepared for work, where we teach engineers about audio measurements, including speakers. We do a practical session that gives people a feeling for what's going on - sadly time constraints mean that it's not terribly in-depth, but as we no longer design our own speakers, that's fine.
In fact, it's better than that, because it shows that the variation in results from professional monitors is really quite surprising. Since we stopped making our own designs, our selection exercises have been purely subjective, on the assumption that monitor speakers will satisfy the really quite fundamental requirement of a basically flat frequency response. But my ears told me differently. My measurement setup simply confirms what I heard, but gives me the data I need to convince people who invest rather too much faith in their hearing.
The more I've learnt over the years about the human hearing system, the less trusting of it I've become. Yes, it's capable of picking out some amazing levels of detail, but it's absolutely hopeless as an absolute measuring tool.
One thing the ear is good at is dealing with reflective rooms - though this ability diminishes with age (the "cocktail party" effect). The measuring mic is not so clever. A technique called "gating" helps, but limits the lowest frequencies you can sensibly measure at the standard 1 metre (typically around 500Hz in a room with an 8 foot ceiling). But that's OK, as the crossover region is the thing you really need to measure during the design process, and bass is relatively easy anyway (modelling software is pretty good). You can take near-field measurements in a room, or put the speaker on top of a 6 foot ladder in the garden if needed. But more on all that later, when the measurement mic is up and running...
Back to the room, if any sort of treatment is out of the question, then just commit "hi-fi heresy" and use the tone controls (or get hold of a graphic equaliser). For non-critical use, it'll be fine. It would be different if you were mixing music, of course. But personally, I really hate lively environments caused by the all too fashionable minimalist interior designs. People underestimate the negative effect bad acoustics can have on their state of mind. This is something that architects take very seriously today, as it can affect footfall - hence profits - in shopping centres, restaurants and the like - there was a really interesting Radio 4 programme about this about a decade ago. I first noticed it about 15-20 years ago when it was subconsciously affecting my choice of local curry-house (we have lots to choose from here!). Definitely not what I'd want in a relaxation room.
But please, no more talk about speaker cables. This is an engineering forum; I am an audio engineer. If you seriously believe that correctly specified audio cables sound significantly different, then you will really struggle to learn about how audio really works. The short-sharp-shock that normally cures people of this is to look at the cables used in broadcast centres and recording studios. It's eye-opening, to say the least!
