Hifi, why bother?

[Mark Hennessy]

So, I'd be happy to sell good, tested, yellow-print, ECC82's, 83's, etc for at the market rate. Granted it's ephemeral, but something is worth what people are prepared to pay.

So are you saying that Amie's example ECC82 actually has a market value of £50?

If so, then that's different. I was assuming, given the context, that the value of £50 was massively inflated, which is why I said I wouldn't rip anyone off. If, however, £50 was the rough market value, then I don't understand why the question was posed - again, given the context.

I think we're talking about 2 distinct things. I was thinking about this last night, and tried to compose a reply, but it was late and I didn't think I was explaining myself very well, so gave up! I'm not sure I'll do any better now, but anyway...

So, with the example of the ECC82, and the subsequent mentions of stamps, paintings, cars, and now a Land Rover, it's clear that Amie and you are discussing second-hand goods, which are worth what people are prepared to pay for them. Obviously, we all understand that...

However, in this thread, I'm talking about items of "Hi-fi" that are available brand new, today.

Quotes because the stuff we're talking about are quite far away from any definition of hi-fi that I'm aware of. Remember, what started this was Andy's description of his enjoyment of euphonic distortion. For people who like that sort of thing, there are no shortage of extremely expensive amplifiers that provide just that.

Which gets into the "esoteric" end of the hi-fi scene. Where you pay more for less performance. And it works because people like distortion.

Here's the crux of the matter: people who buy these expensive low-powered, highly distorting valve amplifiers will argue until they are blue in the face that these amplifiers are much more realistic than "boring" solid state amplifiers. But how can they be? We, as engineers, understand that a half-decent solid state amplifier neither adds nor takes away from the signal, but the valve amplifier is adding colouration, with its high distortion and non-flat frequency response. So the only conclusion is that these people prefer to hear a rose-tinted version of the performance, rather than what the artist intended. Which ain't hi-fi by any definition that I'm aware of. But it is personal preference, which is fair enough.

But are these people getting ripped off? In my mind, that depends entirely on the marketing.

If the manufacturer says "look, this amplifier has an absolutely lousy technical performance, but as luck would have it, all the deficiencies happen to add a certain something to the sound which we really like, and think you will too", then you really can't argue with that. This is completely honest selling in my book.

Of course, that never happens. We all know that the manufacturers will promise the earth and all its riches, and that's what the proud new owners will believe they have bought into. Having spent all that money, how can they be hearing anything else? There are all sorts of subtle tricks going on here, and things like confirmation bias kick in. All very powerful.

It's hard to explain all this stuff in a simple forum post - one day I'll write a full length article about it for my website, though I doubt it will win me many friends.

Suffice to say, when I started hanging out with people in the hi-fi industry, I expected that I would learn everything there is to learn about designing equipment. But mostly, that has not been the case (there is one notable exception who I won't name here). What I have learnt most about though - and this surprised me more than you can imagine - is marketing. In most cases, the product is almost an after-thought, provided it's basically OK. I quote one company owner directly: reasonable products and a brilliant understanding of the market.

And he's right. Which is really depressing for most engineers, because selling is not in our nature. If a potential customer at a show asks us to tell them about our latest amplifier, we'd say something along the lines of "Yeah, it's OK, but I didn't have enough time to finish optimising this part of the circuit, and I wanted to use a bigger heat sink and mains transformer, and the chassis design was compromised because I wanted to use aluminium rather than steel". Engineers just want to do the best job possible, and the dirty business of actually shifting the product is someone else's problem. It's not unusual for there to be a healthy disdain of sales staff among engineers, and the feeling is usually mutual - though in my experience this is mostly in larger organisations; in smaller companies, the engineers realise that there's no point coming up with the best design in the world if there's no-one to sell it. And, let's face it, a good sales person can sell almost anything. You have to respect what they do, even if you don't understand it.

Of course, much as all this might be obvious enough, I've found that it is magnified in the hi-fi industry particularly. Perhaps because it is undeniably a shrinking market, and is especially difficult for the smaller companies who don't have the resources to design their own circuitry (and write code) for things like Bluetooth and wi-fi streaming - which might seem pretty passé in this day and age because of the ubiquity of products doing it, but in reality there's a relatively small number of companies doing the work and selling the hardware and IP to smaller companies. It's no different to buying a CD mechanism and chipset from Sony or Philips, because it would be madness for a small or medium sized company to design their own from scratch. But if you're buying in these modules, there are many risks!

Anyway, I've digressed a lot - as I say, it's complicated to explain - though simple enough once you understand it. I've not touched on pricing structures, but suffice to say, I was horrified at how much the retailers and distributors take. The profit the manufacturer gets really is tiny - I won't discuss it in public - but given that, I can well understand the importance of marketing over everything else. Bear in mind the relatively small quantities involved - hi-fi is a luxury, discretionary purchase, and these days the market is a tiny fraction of what it once was. You can't run a business on the sorts of slim margins that the mass-market manufacturers can.

Against that backdrop, it's no wonder that there are so many companies selling over-priced cables and accessories - margins are much better for those. Who cares that the benefits are marginal at best - just set the marketing machine into motion. Careful to suggest rather than make any actual claims - we don't want the ASA involved - but the power of suggestion is more than good enough!

Obviously there are many other industries selling equally dubious products, with marketing that relies on insecurity and bad science, but I think audio is one of the worst. I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps Darwin will win in the end - after all, the companies and enthusiasts on the "fringes" of audio are merely scaring potential new customers away. It's a shame, because the people who would have had a half-decent midi system back in the '80s or '90s now listen to tiny plastic Bluetooth speakers, often in mono, because that's all that's in the shops. Luckily, John Lewis still offer a few mini-systems from Panasonic and Denon, along with some good stuff from Ruark, who saw the writing on the wall and moved away from hi-fi into the "lifestyle" market, and are doing good stuff with it. I remember when John Lewis used to sell hi-fi "separates" - when they were mainstream. Now, you have to seek our an independent retailer or Richer Sounds - which most people won't do, and those that might will get the woo-woo cable hard-sell once they've chosen the main components, which will put at least some of them off - I've know many "normal" people who abandoned their system purchases at that point. It's a shame... But then, car dealers also push things like gap insurance and paint protection and electrical stores do the same with extended warranties - again, because margins on the main item (be it the hifi components, the vehicle, the washing machine) are so tight these days. It'll be interesting to see how the retail market responds to the current difficulties...

Well done to anyone who read all of that. Sorry it was a bit of a ramble...

The hi-fi experience, though, is more than just the sound, it's the visual appeal. And the intangible.

As I keep saying, we don't just listen with our ears