19-06-2013, 01:45 PM
Hi,
Thanks everyone for your replies regarding oak.
I know you have used oak previously Lawrence and thank you for adding such a lot of useful information regarding green oak or dried oak. I have done a bit of web browsing looking at various sites containing information about the use of oak. One site went into quite a bit of detail discussing the aluminium sub frames etc you kindly mention Lawrence and this alone would make me reject the use of green oak. Thanks also for the picture. You mention protection of the oak once installed and I agree this is most important but I can't ever see me slapping a coat of paint onto oak as you wouldn't; it defeats the object in my view as oak is a beautiful timber in its own right and like you and Nick I would go for either top quality oil or proper clear micro porous to block out UV.
What a dramatic difference the cleaning and oiling has made to your doors Nick and so easy to do?
I take your point about double glazing units being extremely heavy Lawrence but as I work and install totally on my own I would install the bare frames first then add the glazed units making the job more manageable; even a small double glazed unit without frame is heavy because I've installed a couple of replacements over the years.
Thanks Nick for adding the link to the Stirling Castle roof job; this must have been a huge undertaking even using modern equipment but it's mind blowing to think this job was designed; made and installed all those years ago without a single 13A socket in sight? Yes Nick I have a big 3HP router but better than this for a production run I also have a Startrite combination machine with a spindle moulder; I have the big rebating head and also a couple of profiling heads to suit this moulder; I've not ground any moulding knives for years.
Iroko is a very good suggestion David and I've seen a lot of this used in large sections for canal lock gates as it is extremely durable possibly more durable than oak? I've not seen any Iroko for ages but I believe it has a very coarse grain? You also mention wood turners soaking steel wool in vinegar David which is a good tip; I would never use steel wool on oak because it becomes embedded in the open grain then at a later date if the oak becomes damp or wet it quickly stains making it look a mess. Fuming was used a great deal at one time for staining oak furniture; the furniture would be installed in a "tent" and ammonia in open containers was added inside the tent; a sample strip of the same oak would be included and a careful check was kept on the sample strip until the desired shade of brown was obtained; left exposed to the ammonia for too long the oak would eventually turn black. .880 (point eight eighty) ammonia was used for the job of fuming.
I would never embark on a project such as making and installing wooden window frames without doing a great deal of research first; if I only wanted to paint the frames then I would choose a much cheaper softwood.
I'm only thinking about oak window frames at the moment as this is something I've always considered having a go at. Our bungalow still retains the original softwood frames which are in perfect order; just the double glazing units are now starting to fail so I could very cheaply and easily simply replace the glazing units.
The paint finish is Bakelite gloss brown but another option I'm considering is to replace the glazed units then completely re-paint using scumble to resemble oak which is another very old technique little practiced these days. The one big worry I have in replacing window frames is our very unpredictable weather; it would be my luck to remove a window frame then there to be a cloudburst; this cloudburst has a habit of appearing each time I put the final brush full of gloss onto exterior woodwork and only a few days ago I applied Black Magic paint to exterior surfaces and after both coats had been applied down came the rain; it never fails.
As usual I'm thinking aloud and many of my big projects have started this way; at the moment I feel unsettled and not sure which project to tackle first but at least it generates a bit of interest and attracts a lot of very useful information on the forum.
Kind regards, Col.
Thanks everyone for your replies regarding oak.
I know you have used oak previously Lawrence and thank you for adding such a lot of useful information regarding green oak or dried oak. I have done a bit of web browsing looking at various sites containing information about the use of oak. One site went into quite a bit of detail discussing the aluminium sub frames etc you kindly mention Lawrence and this alone would make me reject the use of green oak. Thanks also for the picture. You mention protection of the oak once installed and I agree this is most important but I can't ever see me slapping a coat of paint onto oak as you wouldn't; it defeats the object in my view as oak is a beautiful timber in its own right and like you and Nick I would go for either top quality oil or proper clear micro porous to block out UV.
What a dramatic difference the cleaning and oiling has made to your doors Nick and so easy to do?
I take your point about double glazing units being extremely heavy Lawrence but as I work and install totally on my own I would install the bare frames first then add the glazed units making the job more manageable; even a small double glazed unit without frame is heavy because I've installed a couple of replacements over the years.
Thanks Nick for adding the link to the Stirling Castle roof job; this must have been a huge undertaking even using modern equipment but it's mind blowing to think this job was designed; made and installed all those years ago without a single 13A socket in sight? Yes Nick I have a big 3HP router but better than this for a production run I also have a Startrite combination machine with a spindle moulder; I have the big rebating head and also a couple of profiling heads to suit this moulder; I've not ground any moulding knives for years.
Iroko is a very good suggestion David and I've seen a lot of this used in large sections for canal lock gates as it is extremely durable possibly more durable than oak? I've not seen any Iroko for ages but I believe it has a very coarse grain? You also mention wood turners soaking steel wool in vinegar David which is a good tip; I would never use steel wool on oak because it becomes embedded in the open grain then at a later date if the oak becomes damp or wet it quickly stains making it look a mess. Fuming was used a great deal at one time for staining oak furniture; the furniture would be installed in a "tent" and ammonia in open containers was added inside the tent; a sample strip of the same oak would be included and a careful check was kept on the sample strip until the desired shade of brown was obtained; left exposed to the ammonia for too long the oak would eventually turn black. .880 (point eight eighty) ammonia was used for the job of fuming.
I would never embark on a project such as making and installing wooden window frames without doing a great deal of research first; if I only wanted to paint the frames then I would choose a much cheaper softwood.
I'm only thinking about oak window frames at the moment as this is something I've always considered having a go at. Our bungalow still retains the original softwood frames which are in perfect order; just the double glazing units are now starting to fail so I could very cheaply and easily simply replace the glazing units.
The paint finish is Bakelite gloss brown but another option I'm considering is to replace the glazed units then completely re-paint using scumble to resemble oak which is another very old technique little practiced these days. The one big worry I have in replacing window frames is our very unpredictable weather; it would be my luck to remove a window frame then there to be a cloudburst; this cloudburst has a habit of appearing each time I put the final brush full of gloss onto exterior woodwork and only a few days ago I applied Black Magic paint to exterior surfaces and after both coats had been applied down came the rain; it never fails.
As usual I'm thinking aloud and many of my big projects have started this way; at the moment I feel unsettled and not sure which project to tackle first but at least it generates a bit of interest and attracts a lot of very useful information on the forum.
Kind regards, Col.
Happiness is a wreck of a cabinet to restore.
