14-06-2012, 10:43 AM
Hi,
Many thanks for posting the interesting link David. I never even considered personal monetary cost when I stated if I can do this work then anyone can. I was merely speaking in general terms and this statement appears to be deviating from what I meant. I do these projects for the love of simply doing them and I like to pass on my experiences in the hope of encouraging others to attempt such work. When I first saw Gary's top class cabinet restorations in the Bulletin I could only aspire to such workmanship. Regarding you being a dabbler in many many things David surely this is written tongue in cheek; Bron and I cherish the beautifully turned wooden gifts you so kindly gave us and they remain in pride of place in our front room; we show our visitors them and they are always most impressed. Your wood-turning skills are to be admired and set a benchmark for novice turners to aspire to. You are no slouch either in your other many endeavours always producing excellent results.
I've really started something Gary with saying anyone can do the projects I do. I still believe this to be true but as David says the person must be interested in doing so. Without this interest it is pointless proceeding further because failure is sure to follow. Ability is a different matter entirely; I wouldn't expect a severely disabled person to throw big lumps of hardwood around. The average healthy person if interested enough will learn most things and I don't mean rocket science or brain surgery either. Two forum members have already made their own desks but on a different level but each desk full-fills its duty and will give pleasure knowing it is home made. My desk is very similar; it has to be or it wouldn't be a desk it is only my interpretation of what I wanted my desk to be and I spent considerably more time making it.
I agree Gary that the “old timers” led a very hard life indeed; my father and grandfather were both miners and I too followed them into the pit aged 15. I've never had a “cushy” job in fact I've held down some rotten jobs during my working life but every job has afforded me new experiences moulding me into the person I now am. Like your father Gary I too am an ex biker. I passed my test on a 650cc BSA A10 Golden Flash fitted with a double adult side-car. As an apprentice I used to cycle miles to work in all weathers never missing a day. I've also owned motorcycle outfits with just a bare side car chassis fitted and these must be just about the scariest thing ever to learn to ride; left hand turns easily gets the side car wheel in the air and if the steering damper isn't screwed down then I could expect a a massive steering wobble. I've lived in terrible poverty as many of my school chums also did; in those days people had legs and had to use them; no personal transport and no bus fares either. This is the back ground I come from and to rub it in I was a very sick child missing lots of schooling.
You are right Gary in that yes I received very top class training as an apprentice mechanical engineer; this training was in the harsh environment of the coal mines. I was exposed to massive machines that could rip me apart without even slowing or missing a beat. I was taught safety right from my first day in fact before I even started at the pit I had to attend a training course. I was given a pair of hob nailed safety boots which weighed a ton to a kid like me; my tool kit was a set of big Whitworth spanners; file and 2lb hammer both without handles. I was also given a cold chisel that I was to get to know very well indeed. I was also given the luxury of a donkey jacket and heavy gloves.
My back ground is mechanical engineering. I was taught to cut heavy sections of metal using an oxy/acetylene burner then join them together with either nuts and bolts or by electric welding. I was taught oxy/acetylene welding. These are indeed my skills and very valuable ones as I can use these as stepping stones bringing the disciplines learned into other fields of interest. Having learned these skills doesn't automatically mean I can do woodworking; cabinet-working; French polishing/ veneering or even electronics. I was taught on big machines such as lathes and mills but an engineering lathe is totally different to a wood-turning lathe; both spin material but the method of reducing is quite different. Metal turning is usually to very precise dimension whereas wood-turning unless such as pattern making is done to less critical dimensions. I found it just as difficult learning wood-turning as the next guy; I've made the mistakes such as suffering nasty dig ins and the work becoming detached being turned into a missile; my training didn't cover this. As with many things I do in life my apprentice training remains with me and gives me confidence to tackle anything. My training doesn't do the job and many things I do learn are done the hard way but as you say Gary I have the basic training to guide me.
If I wasn't interested in my hobbies I would be useless at them. The interest has to be there in the first place; I take it a couple of steps further and apply tenacity (stubbornness) and lots of patience. I get told many times by people seeing my work “I don't have the patience to do that”.
I have a head and two hands and I was taught how to use them to good effect in my apprenticeship but I'm finding out I can apply what I was taught into my everyday life. The biggest skill I possess is being able to think for myself. I don't throw my hands up in the air saying I can't do that; was I taught cabinetmaking/woodworking/French polishing/ veneering or the many and varied projects I tackle; no I wasn't and it has been hard work for me to learn them. I find it annoying in the extreme to be told I have the skills; I have the tools/ I have the machines/ I have the space and I have the time. I've worked extremely hard for a lifetime to acquire what I have and finally it's all coming together for me where I can afford a bit of decent hardwood or Formica.
I can use the old fashioned tools you mention Gary and for years I used a shooting board with hand plane to produce tight fitting joints; I used to cut mortice and tenon joints by hand and I even had a Stanley shoulder plane bought for me as a gift to trim the tenon shoulders. I can use a tenon saw in fact I like to use my hacksaw which again harks back to my training. I have lots of hand tools and still enjoy using them.
My collection of power tools and heavy machines has been built up over the last 50 years so it would be foolish of me to expect a novice to have such kit at their disposal. Your father did a lot of good work Gary without a lot of power equipment but times have changed and it is much easier for a novice to take up any hobby as there is such a vast array of kit in the stores these days at very affordable prices. A cheap router with a few cutters will do a heck of a lot of good work and will even do the job of a biscuit joiner. A router will cut many different types of joint including the more difficult joints such and comb and dovetail with ease. Good quality hand tools are still expensive but if bought one at a time over a long period they will earn their keep.
Being taught good basic skills Gary doesn't automatically ensure a person can do anything otherwise everyone on this forum would be doing what I do. The interest or motivation has to be there in the first place; I actually forgot about motivation and this is where a person is faced with say a repair but can't possibly pay for a trades person to do the repair.
I do my projects for the love of doing them; I don't set out to impress because when I start many of my projects all I have is my confidence as there is no guarantee of success. I hope I don't be seen to preach or come over as a know it all; if I knew it all there would be little to interest me because it is the stuff I don't know that drives me to find out. I spend ages on my projects; this time is extended by taking many pictures of work in progress then later in the day writing my story up for inclusion in the forum/s. I'm not the most educated guy and it takes time running the spelling and grammar check before I add anything to the forum.
Because I have such a decent set up now after working towards it for half a century I'll spend less time on the forums after all it is so easy for me to do decent work having all my kit why should a novice aspire to similar so perhaps I'm wasting my time trying to encourage others to get off their back sides and have a go.
The average educated person can read and write so why is there only one William Shakespeare?
The other man’s grass is always greener.
Here is a picture of my finished desk with the door slightly ajar; the catch was fitted after taking the picture
Kind regards, Col.
Finished desk.
Many thanks for posting the interesting link David. I never even considered personal monetary cost when I stated if I can do this work then anyone can. I was merely speaking in general terms and this statement appears to be deviating from what I meant. I do these projects for the love of simply doing them and I like to pass on my experiences in the hope of encouraging others to attempt such work. When I first saw Gary's top class cabinet restorations in the Bulletin I could only aspire to such workmanship. Regarding you being a dabbler in many many things David surely this is written tongue in cheek; Bron and I cherish the beautifully turned wooden gifts you so kindly gave us and they remain in pride of place in our front room; we show our visitors them and they are always most impressed. Your wood-turning skills are to be admired and set a benchmark for novice turners to aspire to. You are no slouch either in your other many endeavours always producing excellent results.
I've really started something Gary with saying anyone can do the projects I do. I still believe this to be true but as David says the person must be interested in doing so. Without this interest it is pointless proceeding further because failure is sure to follow. Ability is a different matter entirely; I wouldn't expect a severely disabled person to throw big lumps of hardwood around. The average healthy person if interested enough will learn most things and I don't mean rocket science or brain surgery either. Two forum members have already made their own desks but on a different level but each desk full-fills its duty and will give pleasure knowing it is home made. My desk is very similar; it has to be or it wouldn't be a desk it is only my interpretation of what I wanted my desk to be and I spent considerably more time making it.
I agree Gary that the “old timers” led a very hard life indeed; my father and grandfather were both miners and I too followed them into the pit aged 15. I've never had a “cushy” job in fact I've held down some rotten jobs during my working life but every job has afforded me new experiences moulding me into the person I now am. Like your father Gary I too am an ex biker. I passed my test on a 650cc BSA A10 Golden Flash fitted with a double adult side-car. As an apprentice I used to cycle miles to work in all weathers never missing a day. I've also owned motorcycle outfits with just a bare side car chassis fitted and these must be just about the scariest thing ever to learn to ride; left hand turns easily gets the side car wheel in the air and if the steering damper isn't screwed down then I could expect a a massive steering wobble. I've lived in terrible poverty as many of my school chums also did; in those days people had legs and had to use them; no personal transport and no bus fares either. This is the back ground I come from and to rub it in I was a very sick child missing lots of schooling.
You are right Gary in that yes I received very top class training as an apprentice mechanical engineer; this training was in the harsh environment of the coal mines. I was exposed to massive machines that could rip me apart without even slowing or missing a beat. I was taught safety right from my first day in fact before I even started at the pit I had to attend a training course. I was given a pair of hob nailed safety boots which weighed a ton to a kid like me; my tool kit was a set of big Whitworth spanners; file and 2lb hammer both without handles. I was also given a cold chisel that I was to get to know very well indeed. I was also given the luxury of a donkey jacket and heavy gloves.
My back ground is mechanical engineering. I was taught to cut heavy sections of metal using an oxy/acetylene burner then join them together with either nuts and bolts or by electric welding. I was taught oxy/acetylene welding. These are indeed my skills and very valuable ones as I can use these as stepping stones bringing the disciplines learned into other fields of interest. Having learned these skills doesn't automatically mean I can do woodworking; cabinet-working; French polishing/ veneering or even electronics. I was taught on big machines such as lathes and mills but an engineering lathe is totally different to a wood-turning lathe; both spin material but the method of reducing is quite different. Metal turning is usually to very precise dimension whereas wood-turning unless such as pattern making is done to less critical dimensions. I found it just as difficult learning wood-turning as the next guy; I've made the mistakes such as suffering nasty dig ins and the work becoming detached being turned into a missile; my training didn't cover this. As with many things I do in life my apprentice training remains with me and gives me confidence to tackle anything. My training doesn't do the job and many things I do learn are done the hard way but as you say Gary I have the basic training to guide me.
If I wasn't interested in my hobbies I would be useless at them. The interest has to be there in the first place; I take it a couple of steps further and apply tenacity (stubbornness) and lots of patience. I get told many times by people seeing my work “I don't have the patience to do that”.
I have a head and two hands and I was taught how to use them to good effect in my apprenticeship but I'm finding out I can apply what I was taught into my everyday life. The biggest skill I possess is being able to think for myself. I don't throw my hands up in the air saying I can't do that; was I taught cabinetmaking/woodworking/French polishing/ veneering or the many and varied projects I tackle; no I wasn't and it has been hard work for me to learn them. I find it annoying in the extreme to be told I have the skills; I have the tools/ I have the machines/ I have the space and I have the time. I've worked extremely hard for a lifetime to acquire what I have and finally it's all coming together for me where I can afford a bit of decent hardwood or Formica.
I can use the old fashioned tools you mention Gary and for years I used a shooting board with hand plane to produce tight fitting joints; I used to cut mortice and tenon joints by hand and I even had a Stanley shoulder plane bought for me as a gift to trim the tenon shoulders. I can use a tenon saw in fact I like to use my hacksaw which again harks back to my training. I have lots of hand tools and still enjoy using them.
My collection of power tools and heavy machines has been built up over the last 50 years so it would be foolish of me to expect a novice to have such kit at their disposal. Your father did a lot of good work Gary without a lot of power equipment but times have changed and it is much easier for a novice to take up any hobby as there is such a vast array of kit in the stores these days at very affordable prices. A cheap router with a few cutters will do a heck of a lot of good work and will even do the job of a biscuit joiner. A router will cut many different types of joint including the more difficult joints such and comb and dovetail with ease. Good quality hand tools are still expensive but if bought one at a time over a long period they will earn their keep.
Being taught good basic skills Gary doesn't automatically ensure a person can do anything otherwise everyone on this forum would be doing what I do. The interest or motivation has to be there in the first place; I actually forgot about motivation and this is where a person is faced with say a repair but can't possibly pay for a trades person to do the repair.
I do my projects for the love of doing them; I don't set out to impress because when I start many of my projects all I have is my confidence as there is no guarantee of success. I hope I don't be seen to preach or come over as a know it all; if I knew it all there would be little to interest me because it is the stuff I don't know that drives me to find out. I spend ages on my projects; this time is extended by taking many pictures of work in progress then later in the day writing my story up for inclusion in the forum/s. I'm not the most educated guy and it takes time running the spelling and grammar check before I add anything to the forum.
Because I have such a decent set up now after working towards it for half a century I'll spend less time on the forums after all it is so easy for me to do decent work having all my kit why should a novice aspire to similar so perhaps I'm wasting my time trying to encourage others to get off their back sides and have a go.
The average educated person can read and write so why is there only one William Shakespeare?
The other man’s grass is always greener.
Here is a picture of my finished desk with the door slightly ajar; the catch was fitted after taking the picture
Kind regards, Col.
Finished desk.
Happiness is a wreck of a cabinet to restore.
