Lissen/Ever Ready 5214

[Mike Watterson]

I'd say the octal conversion was slightly amiss. The pins are all in the same order, but the P8 base spacing isn't regular like International Octal and Mazda Octal. Also even changing the same base, the RF mixer/Osc is the most sensitive to layout.
Maybe the original mica cap got broken or lead accidentally snipped too short when the base was being swapped? But it reads the same description as mine. Mine looks like paxolin boards with a blue spot and no wax.
So strange.

   
Close up crop of the original P8 base mixer/osc with blue spot cap visible.

[Mike Watterson]

Actually the P8 and Octal bases are only nearly the same. The m pin and f- are swapped as are f+ and the usually no connection on direct valves, or cathode on indirect.
So it's possible to mess up swapping. The Pinch leadouts are the same, though normally f- and "m" would be shorted at the base.
Later many octal use a button base, but the P8 long gone then.
Also later most signal valves use an outer mesh tube or solid tube as an internally fitted screen to the m pin or f- or g3 or cathode, thus removing the need for metallising.

[Amie]

Hello Mike.

I think I can see what has happened now, if the set had originally had a DF1 in the V2 position, the capacitor C23 would have been hung on the tag for pin 1 (M) and/or 3 (- F), it was transfered to the octal holder on 1 and 2 instead of 1and 7, then taken to the decoupling capacitor - connection on the chassis.

I never suspected it originally because its not near V1 or the LO coil....


Amie

[Kalee20]

Both of you have the advantage of having a 5214, I don't!

I'd say the octal conversion was slightly amiss.

Though, Amie's post #4 says the octal valveholders are riveted in, which sounds like a factory job from Day 1, not a retrofit by Smithy the Serviceman.

What would clinch it, is the holes in the chassis. P valveholders need big holes; Octals smaller at 1 1/8" holes. If the holes are correct for octals, then it has always been thus right from punching the chassis. If adaptor plates are fitted, then it could have been either.

Whatever the situation, 95pF is clearly too high and it needed replacing. And, personally, I'd connect the 20pF capacitor right across the gang (or its parallel trimmer), keeping fingers firmly crossed that the original designer hadn't compensated for a non-ideal connection point by fudging the L and C values!

The Trader sheet, like the circuit snippet that Mike put up in Post #8, doesn't help this discussion by leaving pin numbers off the diagram (even if two sets, for P8 and IO are necessary).

Breaking into oscillation except when a strong signal is being received... I'd suggest that instability is mild, and a strong station generates enough AVC voltage to bias the valves to a low gain which doesn't oscillate.

All makes for an interesting, ongoing repair 

[Mike Watterson]

Putting in rivets isn't hard, esp. if the soft copper kind. Removing them is tricker. The photo looks like a conversion job. I've certainly got paxolin octal sockets that will fit the same mounts as P8 and wouldn't need plates. They sit on top of the chassis. The common Bakelite octal sockets with a metal mounting plate might have a gap.

I agree that oscillation stopping with stronger signals is usually AGC action. I saw it recently on an Ever Ready Skyranger 6802. It wasn't the main decoupler, but the 100uF one decoupling the IF/RF supply that had dried out, very high ESR. The other decouplers and speaker cap were a different brand. The pair associated with the volume control same make and high ESR, though there it doesn't much matter. The difference in audio quality after replacing the RF/IF section supply decoupler (I think was 100uF) was amazing. Coincidently that's the last set I've restored and the very last from Ever Ready. The 5214 being the first Ever Ready portable without a Lead Acid cell, The All Dry Portable. The AD3 pack it uses was deliberately huge to give the big running time compared with running to the cycle shop to recharge the lead acid. In fact about the same life as the HT pack in the Lissen Picnic Portable 8168 (Ever Ready 5010), a TRF, maybe 1936. I have one (forget if Lissen or ER) in terrible condition. I'd say smaller and lighter than the 5214, but needing very frequent recharging. I think I might have one of the last Vidor and Pye 2V portable superhets (both 1938), I must restore them and compare to 5214. Both lighter and possibly smaller. The AD3 probably had EIGHT F cells (the insides of 2 x 996 packs) and 60 B cells (=20 of the 1289 style flat 4.5V packs still sold as 3R20, not the rather rarer AD28 which is also sold as 3R25). It was called an Ever Ready No.3 All Dry Pack when the 5214 family was released. I've wondered what the No.1 and No.2 packs were.
The B103 replaces the B cells with multiple packs of layer cells. Some of the later PP range of 6V and 9V certainly used the same size "biscuits" as in the layer cell HT packs which seems to have been first used in the 1930s in the USA. The last 1950s model to use B cells instead of the layer cells for HT seems to have been the Vidor CN420A, which had 125mA LT, so the large 1.5V pack is 4 x F cells. I expect the batteries in the CN420 lasted about the same as the AD3 in the ER 5214. The only longer life UK model would have been the Sky Prince with the optional massive B137 pack rather than the merely large B136 the Sky Queen also used, very similar chassis.

The AD3 and B103 is for 250mA and the B136 and B137 are for 125mA

[Mike Watterson]

The Lissen Picnic 8168 = ER 5010, released in 1936.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/lissen_sui..._8168.html
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_5010.html
It does sort of pop-up. Then can be tilted further to swap the lead acid gel cell.

The 5041 seems to be the last 2V portable, 1938. USA already had All dry sets that year.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_5041.html
Probably the model replaced by the 5214 family in 1939.

The No.1 All Dry, but it's only LT, AD1 https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/ever_all_d...y_ad1.html
The No.2 All Dry, also called the AD2 is 45V. I've two 1950s sets that take 2 x 45V packs, one could be the AD2, but the other is a flatter pack.
No idea what it went in as the AD4 seems to have replaced it.

[Amie]

Mike.

I wonder if its possible to measure the cut out for the p8 holder? The chassis holes seemed quite big on mine, though the valve holders (paxolin 'cheapo' type) are mounted from the underside. The riveting doesn't look particularly factory done on a couple of them. Maybe they weren't all replaced at the same time, the valves were unlikely to fail simultaneously after all. I'm still unsure if all the valves were one type or the other, I'll measure the cutouts in mine later.

I would think that if the supply of the original valves was hit and miss ER wouldn't faf about with different punches?

Amie.

[Mike Watterson]

The models where the valves were changed during production seem to have same size cutout.
I'd have to take out the chassis as the P8 holder overlaps the hole.

[Mike Watterson]

The underside mount of the paxolin octal holders is something I've never seen. That's weird.

EDIT:
Went and looked at Model A.
Obviously I never pulled any valves on it, or didn't look. It's got the paxolin bases riveted with soft copper rivets and from the underside. Also holes seem smaller than 1939 model.

If yours was really made like that, then that's unusual if it's really 1941, but not impossible. They do seem to have been using a mixed lineup in 1942.

Tea is underway, so I couldn't check a P8 base. I have some spare NOS P8 bases like those in the 1939 models.

[Amie]

Not easy!
Don't worry. Someone may have a loose holder kicking about that would give a clue about the cut out.

If you look at the picture of old johns set in the thread on VRRR, it also has under chassis mounted paxolin holders.