Union Jubilee Clutch.

[pwdrive]

Hi Col, I was thinking that the motor pulley would be single and fixed, the one on the lathe being a variable pulley?

Lawrence.

[ex 2 Base]

Hi Col, I was thinking that the motor pulley would be single and fixed, the one on the lathe being a variable pulley?

Lawrence.

Hello Colin, as you already have an inverter why not make yourself a remote control box, then the inverter is out of the dusty area. The control circuitry is low voltage 12 or 24 so almost any switch and 5 K linear pot will be OK. I have 3 home made one in my workshop.If you send me details of your inverters I could make you a wiring diagram. I use a screened ex computer lead 6 or 8 wires from box to inverter. Ted

[Retired]

Hi,

Many thanks Lawrence regarding mounting the fixed single pulley onto the motor shaft and the variable pulley onto the mandrel. It's interesting kicking ideas around.

I thought the standard variable pulley position would be on the motor shaft and in the case of the Jubilee this would also afford extra length compared to mounting on the mandrel which is limited in length by the two bearing housings; please see picture on post #30.

However the variable drive pulley is mounted it would need to be easily adjustable but as these are spring loaded (?) it brings us back to how to make the belt slip? Yes it would give variable speed and these drives can be very complicated as used in cars making speed changes easy but what I'm trying to achieve is to stop the drive completely whilst leaving the motor at full speed; I can adjust the motor speed from zero to over 11,000 revs using the VFD.

I like your thought pattern though Lawrence as we are clearly both thinking about the options available not only as standard but being modified by us. One thing against the variable pulley in this instance is lack of space; the mandrel looks as though it would accept a much wider pulley but if you inspect the picture (post #30) you will see the pedestal is encroaching onto this space in effect only allowing the width of the stepped pulley.

It would be easier to mount a variable drive pulley onto the motor shaft both because of better access but allowing increased length; the motor would still need to be easily adjustable either by lifting or tilting to allow the belt to either rise or lower on the pulley. I've been looking at the mountings in the links below and I'm surprised just how much distance the motor will need to travel to allow the full speed range if a variable pulley was adopted; this distance on the Jubilee is very limited indeed due to the motor aperture in the pedestal. I could get around the problem of the short motor shaft by simply introducing a counter-shaft.

http://www.speedselector.com/engineering/index.htm

http://www.speedselector.com/products/ad...drives.htm

http://www.comintec.it/Variable-pulleys-...c5_en.aspx

Rather than waste a great deal of time and effort experimenting in the workshop I'll do some research on the web; it's a lot warmer here at the computer than for me to make constant trips between workshop and garage in the cold fog and drizzle.

I know a "V" belt can be made to slip so all I need to do is find out how? Years ago when I had my huge Dominion wood-turning lathe this was powered by a big old fashioned cast iron 2 HP 3 phase motor; power was supplied through a Transwave converter and this set up was horrible; for constant start/stop cycles it was a slow process waiting for speed to come up and this was the reason I ended up selling both my Dominion and Triumph lathes. I installed a long lever attaching this lever to the front of the Dominion head-stock; attached to this lever was a cam which allowed the lever to lift the motor with the cam throwing over center thereby locking the motor in the high position; the lathe was running flat belts so as soon as the motor was lifted it completely broke the drive to the mandrel and as the mandrel was fitted with a very heavy 16" out-board face plate I obtained brake disk pads and installed one of these to the head-stock allowing the pad to bear down hard on the disk thereby giving a very effective brake. So I know for certain if I converted the Jubilee to flat belt and pulleys I could achieve what I'm trying to do.

I also know "V" belts can be made to slip and as I'm working on the Jubilee already set up with "V" belt drive I thought if I could succeed without spending a lot of money my story would be useful to others also wishing to install a clutch onto their lathe?

Keep the ideas coming though Lawrence as all information is useful and I'm sure others will have Ideas I hadn't thought of; these forums are great for exchanging ideas and information.

Kind regards, Col.

[Retired]

Hi,

This is very decent of you Ted to offer to supply me a wiring diagram for remote inverter controls and I'll be happy to accept at a later date once I've sorted out the clutch; this clutch is becoming an obsession with me and I'll not settle until it's sorted. Thank you Ted it is much appreciated.

I've just had a look on the web and found some information regarding an idea I had in fully disengaging the "V" belt thereby stopping drive; I knew what I wanted but hadn't decided how to go about it but the following link is very useful.

I know the motor is tilting enough to make the "V" belt very slack but the belt was still driving hard; as the slackened belt was "floating" it was making contact with the motor pulley and as "V" belts are very efficient in transmitting power the pulley "V" was obviously grabbing the loose belt?

I was considering adding a pair of metal "fingers" to deflect the loose belt away from the revolving motor pulley so I was actually thinking on the right lines; I now believe I'm half way all I need to do now is to arrange belt deflection? Ideally I would like to come up with a simpler solution than using a jockey. I'll study the following link in more detail and also browse the web for other ideas but the following is a very well thought out solution as it appears a "loop" is allowed to be incorporated in the bottom of the "V" pulley; this loop being prevented from rotating but once the belt is slackened the loop then engages with the inner face of the belt thereby lifting the belt clear of the pulley hence not only completely breaking drive but preventing belt wear from rubbing?

http://www.google.com/patents?id=5C06AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Kind regards, Col.

[Yorkie]

Surprised to see that the 'slipping belt cutch' on a lawnmower was patented as recently as 1977 in the US.

I don't know how that one differs from the normal slipping belt clutch on lawnmowers, but certainly in the early 1960s, as I recall they were fairly standard arrangements on motor mowers.

I'd assumed they went back donkeys years - aeons even. Simple enough, but very effective.

Best of luck in your experiementation and developement with the Jubilee clutch project Colin.

[pwdrive]

I Col, I had a transwave powering my morticer down the sawmill when I ran it, did the job ok, never tried it on big stuff, my Cooksley/Dominion Combi was a big cast iron job ex RNAS Culdrose. was fitted with a 3 phase 5 horse job, took that off and stuck a new 3 horse single phase on it, no problems, would cut anything up to the machines specified limit, ran a 20" ripping blade and a 16" crosscut blade, planer was a 16 x 9, good old machine that was, it made me some money.

I think variable pullies are used in lawnmowers....scrapyard maybe.
Disengaging a variable pulley: don't know a lot about them to be honest but if the internal faces were parted enough the belt would drop down and stop the power transfer.
However what I know from experience is that if a system or problem is not worked out in an hour then it's usually a long haul just like fault finding radios.

Lawrence.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for your good wishes and encouragement David. As you say David it does come as a surprise to see the slipping belt clutch only recently patented but I suppose as it's been around so long that everyone using it assumed it had already been patented?

I too like the big old cast iron machinery Lawrence; I enjoyed owning both my Dominion and Colchester lathes; I never liked the Transwave converter though right from the start; it was a 7.5HP model costing me something like £325 second and over 12 years ago so it wasn't cheap. It's machine starting performance was dismal in fact I paid to have it checked out sending it back to Transwave who assured me it was OK? If you was happy with yours Lawrence then it suited what you wanted to do with it but for my use I was highly disappointed; at times I thought the Transwave was going to jump from its wall mounting when I applied a decent cut on the Colchester; the Transwave objected very loudly which was most annoying. I don't want to call Transwave converters names but for me no thank you.

Like you Lawrence I too know very little about variable drive pulleys; I know they exist but I've never had hands on with one. I agree with you in that if the two pulley cheeks could be separated enough to break grip on the belt then it follows the pulley would no longer drive? The problem with this though is I believe it would end up becoming complicated in sorting out some kind of linkage and installing it to force the two cheeks apart after all these cheeks are spring loaded; it's possible I could do it if I put in enough time and effort but I now know of an easier method?

What a good rule of thumb Lawrence when you say if a problem is un-resolved in an an hour then it's going to take ages; funny this; all my projects so far fall into the latter category; I start off well then the projects bite me.

I've mentioned a number of times that I hope to keep this clutch project as simple as possible even saying I would like a simpler solution to the one shown in the link in post #44. Since I last posted I've been browsing the web looking for the "finger" idea to see if anyone else had tried this but without success. I then remembered the video I added in post #26 where the guy was using a slipping "V" belt clutch on his engineering lathe. A simple pull of a short lever and this guy could start/stop the lathe whilst leaving the motor running but how was this achieved because I was lucky in the first place to spot this?

I settled down and ran the video a number of times but this time really taking notice; operating the lever was done so quickly that I kept missing what I was looking for but I then ran the video and kept stopping it; at first I still could not spot what I was looking for but after repeated attempts the solution was finally staring at me; this guy has actually put into practice exactly what I had in my head; a pair of metal fingers arranged to deflect the belt. This could not be better; this confirms that a very simple solution is available; obviously I'm not unique in thinking about this but it saved me experimenting without knowing my idea would work. I had taken it one step further in my head because I was concerned about belt wear if using bare steel fingers so I planned on using a pair of bearings?

I also considered spring loading the motor mount set to lift the motor in default position making it "Off". I'm still undecided about this but I need to play around to find the optimum position for the fingers and once I can tilt the motor to break the drive then I'm home and dry with only other bits to tweak?

It took a lot of concentration to obtain the picture below but how brilliant it is in showing the two metal fingers; hindsight is wonderful and I could have saved myself lots of time had I thought about spending time to study the video closely?

I feel depressed with this weather and I don't feel like getting off my backside today but this will pass. My new clutch cable has just arrived so hopefully if my idea works as planed this cable will save me rigging up complicated linkages to tilt the motor?

I captured the video image using the digital camera but as I browse "You Tube" a lot can anyone advise me how to download allowing me to save these videos to disc as I would like to keep many of them for future reference. I don't want to infringe any copyright so please ignore if this is an issue?

Kind regards, Col.

   

[pwdrive]

Hi Col, the Transwave I had was just for an old morticer, the morticer came from Geevor mine where I worked, it was ancient, originally it was a hand morticer (no motor) with a large counter weight fitted, it looked liked something from a railway signals box, the motor that was fitted at sometime was a 3 phase pre war job, it was only 1 horse though so no problem, the Transwave went when I sold the sawmill machinery.

Lawrence

[Retired]

Hi,

I too had such a morticer many years ago Lawrence just as you describe; it was cast iron construction built like a battleship and weighed about the same; the long arm must have been around 4' or 5' in length with a very large round cast iron counterbalance which used to bash against the side of the machine; the cross slides were also substantial but it certainly punched holes into thick timber with little effort; the problem was that because of the long arm it needed a lot of space so in the end had to go. Mine was very similar to this;

   
Vintage morticing machine.

This slipping belt clutch is evading me; I've just come out of the workshop still without success; I rigged up a pair of belt deflecting fingers as shown in the pictures making these adjustable but the belt still drives having tried these fingers in many positions. With the motor tilted the belt is very slack and I can nudge it with a stick to stop it driving but as yet I'm unable to achieve this by simply tilting the motor. I've also just tried mounting a bearing on a bracket but this too has failed. I could enjoy this project but every time I visit the garage to do any work it's very cold but at least I've managed to leave the car out all day without the car getting a soaking.

I'll stick with it but the main problem is access to watch the belt otherwise I would have this job well sorted by now. What a life; the sun is now tormenting me by blinding me through the window. Each method I try is one method less and eventually I'll have tried all the unsuccessful methods first before I succeed?

Kind regards, Col.

           

[Joe]

This program works for me under both XP and Vista to download YouTube videos: http://vdownloader.com/

- Joe