Hi,
Thanks for the good wishes Gary and I'm sure you will be proved correct about the openings being a real pain but at the moment I'll be happy just to have the veneer remain securely in place; I'll tackle these other problems as and when they arise.
http://www.technologystudent.com/joints/casca2.htm
Cascamite is indeed a great glue Lawrence and I too can vouch to its strength as I used it years ago whilst assembling garage doors. Unfortunately for vintage cabinetwork Cascamite has a serious drawback; it is non reversible and once the parts are stuck together they are permanent also I'm not sure what would happen if the glue got onto the face of timber frames or veneer; would it accept stain? Ordinary woodworking adhesive could also be used and this accepts stain and is also water based in non waterproof types. Contact adhesive would not be any good in this situation due to the buckled veneers which need flattening although contact adhesive would not cause much change in size of the veneers and I've used contact adhesive to attach veneer to a long side board; this veneer was very well behaved and dead flat it being common Sapele. There are many types of adhesive but for these kinds of jobs I prefer hot hide glue; this isn't the easiest glue to use but has stood the test of time over centuries and is an incredibly powerful glue once it sets; hide glue has excellent gap filling properties and is fully reversible even 100 years later.
You certainly aren't nuts Lawrence and thanks for giving this a lot of thought. I've considered lots of clamping options and lost a lot of sleep over the last few days. Webbing clamps would be a very good way of clamping especially when it comes to curves and as you say Lawrence such clamps are very cheap in fact I've got some I bought at Poundland. I've used such straps for many years in my job before I retired for securing loads to wagons but these are obviously unsuitable as they are heavy duty but work on the same principle.
Yes Lawrence the curve is nothing more than a plain radius and you are again correct in that a suitably curved mould/former would exert pressure as required but it would be very time consuming trying to obtain or make a suitable former which actually is a "Caul". These cauls are much used with great success. Its even possible a pipe run length ways through the band-saw would suffice but obtaining a suitable pipe could prove a problem? One thing I had considered on this theme was to bore holes of the correct radius into something like thick MDF and glue many of these together as you would with washers then cut along the length once the glue had set. I've thought of many ways and to this problem there are a number of solutions.
The webbing clamps would possibly work and given the extra cabinet reinforcement enough pressure could be applied but using multiple clamps would be a juggling act and one consideration is the "open time" before the glue begins to set up and many glues have a short open time. When I restored my Ekco TV cabinet I used the reinforcing method of adding wooden struts clamping these in place to retain the integrity of the cabinet whilst a complete side was removed.
It's good to receive your input though Lawrence and I can understand this problem grabbing your attention; it will drive you around the bend the more you think about it. You would think applying thin wood veneer to be extremely easy after all the veneer is only like a sheet of paper but with horns as it is the very devil to tame and this is where practice and experience comes in.
There are many things to take into consideration when it comes to veneering; if the panel is flat then this simplifies the job immensely especially if well behaved veneer is selected; however Burr veneer is in a totally different league and will test a novice to breaking point before success is achieved; I've found this out the hard way but having only ever tried to lay Burr this once I've moved forward light years in experience and now I know it won't be half the trouble in future.
Your use of webbing is good Lawrence but if you consider my idea of cloth and battens this actually simplifies the job a great deal whilst the technique is very similar; once the veneer is secured on the flat section then the cloth batten can very quickly be clamped and once the cloth is pulled taut it forms the full width of veneer perfectly around the curve whilst allowing both the iron and hammer to be applied directly over the cloth; it does work because I've tried it; I've never seen this cloth idea tried before but it is incredibly easy and very cheap; two wooden battens with a length of cloth is about as simple as it gets.
Another idea I thought about was to use Bronwyn's wooden rolling pin to form the veneer around the curve and again I'm confident this would work followed up with the hammer. We also agree Lawrence about clamping until the glue sets as I've found out to my misfortune. I was surprised though to find the Burr veneer to become quite flexible once wetted and ironed a number of times; it went around the curve without the least trouble; this was the one area I expected a great deal of trouble but in fact veneering the curve proved the easiest part of the job.
One thing I don't wish to do is to put others off from having a go at veneering because standard veneering isn't too difficult for a novice to do; what I'm trying to do is a bit more involved and had I known to cut the veneer to size AFTER wetting a lot of my problems would not have arisen also applying the cool iron was a huge mistake but armed in future with this information I'll make a much better job of it.
Forums are wonderful for kicking ideas around and I'm pleased to add my ramblings on this subject.
Kind regards, Col.
Thanks for the good wishes Gary and I'm sure you will be proved correct about the openings being a real pain but at the moment I'll be happy just to have the veneer remain securely in place; I'll tackle these other problems as and when they arise.
http://www.technologystudent.com/joints/casca2.htm
Cascamite is indeed a great glue Lawrence and I too can vouch to its strength as I used it years ago whilst assembling garage doors. Unfortunately for vintage cabinetwork Cascamite has a serious drawback; it is non reversible and once the parts are stuck together they are permanent also I'm not sure what would happen if the glue got onto the face of timber frames or veneer; would it accept stain? Ordinary woodworking adhesive could also be used and this accepts stain and is also water based in non waterproof types. Contact adhesive would not be any good in this situation due to the buckled veneers which need flattening although contact adhesive would not cause much change in size of the veneers and I've used contact adhesive to attach veneer to a long side board; this veneer was very well behaved and dead flat it being common Sapele. There are many types of adhesive but for these kinds of jobs I prefer hot hide glue; this isn't the easiest glue to use but has stood the test of time over centuries and is an incredibly powerful glue once it sets; hide glue has excellent gap filling properties and is fully reversible even 100 years later.
You certainly aren't nuts Lawrence and thanks for giving this a lot of thought. I've considered lots of clamping options and lost a lot of sleep over the last few days. Webbing clamps would be a very good way of clamping especially when it comes to curves and as you say Lawrence such clamps are very cheap in fact I've got some I bought at Poundland. I've used such straps for many years in my job before I retired for securing loads to wagons but these are obviously unsuitable as they are heavy duty but work on the same principle.
Yes Lawrence the curve is nothing more than a plain radius and you are again correct in that a suitably curved mould/former would exert pressure as required but it would be very time consuming trying to obtain or make a suitable former which actually is a "Caul". These cauls are much used with great success. Its even possible a pipe run length ways through the band-saw would suffice but obtaining a suitable pipe could prove a problem? One thing I had considered on this theme was to bore holes of the correct radius into something like thick MDF and glue many of these together as you would with washers then cut along the length once the glue had set. I've thought of many ways and to this problem there are a number of solutions.
The webbing clamps would possibly work and given the extra cabinet reinforcement enough pressure could be applied but using multiple clamps would be a juggling act and one consideration is the "open time" before the glue begins to set up and many glues have a short open time. When I restored my Ekco TV cabinet I used the reinforcing method of adding wooden struts clamping these in place to retain the integrity of the cabinet whilst a complete side was removed.
It's good to receive your input though Lawrence and I can understand this problem grabbing your attention; it will drive you around the bend the more you think about it. You would think applying thin wood veneer to be extremely easy after all the veneer is only like a sheet of paper but with horns as it is the very devil to tame and this is where practice and experience comes in.
There are many things to take into consideration when it comes to veneering; if the panel is flat then this simplifies the job immensely especially if well behaved veneer is selected; however Burr veneer is in a totally different league and will test a novice to breaking point before success is achieved; I've found this out the hard way but having only ever tried to lay Burr this once I've moved forward light years in experience and now I know it won't be half the trouble in future.
Your use of webbing is good Lawrence but if you consider my idea of cloth and battens this actually simplifies the job a great deal whilst the technique is very similar; once the veneer is secured on the flat section then the cloth batten can very quickly be clamped and once the cloth is pulled taut it forms the full width of veneer perfectly around the curve whilst allowing both the iron and hammer to be applied directly over the cloth; it does work because I've tried it; I've never seen this cloth idea tried before but it is incredibly easy and very cheap; two wooden battens with a length of cloth is about as simple as it gets.
Another idea I thought about was to use Bronwyn's wooden rolling pin to form the veneer around the curve and again I'm confident this would work followed up with the hammer. We also agree Lawrence about clamping until the glue sets as I've found out to my misfortune. I was surprised though to find the Burr veneer to become quite flexible once wetted and ironed a number of times; it went around the curve without the least trouble; this was the one area I expected a great deal of trouble but in fact veneering the curve proved the easiest part of the job.
One thing I don't wish to do is to put others off from having a go at veneering because standard veneering isn't too difficult for a novice to do; what I'm trying to do is a bit more involved and had I known to cut the veneer to size AFTER wetting a lot of my problems would not have arisen also applying the cool iron was a huge mistake but armed in future with this information I'll make a much better job of it.
Forums are wonderful for kicking ideas around and I'm pleased to add my ramblings on this subject.
Kind regards, Col.
Happiness is a wreck of a cabinet to restore.
